Not By Works

[JaumeJ]

I will not respond to your added inferences until you apologize for inferring I am not a child of God.

As for your questions they are also inferred accusations.

You know, I know you do, that there will be the least in heaven. You be penniless. I know from Jesus to have that kind of aspiration is a very dangerous attitude. Iwant to be rich in heaven, and I know I already am because Jesus christ was poor in order for me to be rich.

If you do not answer to what I post, choosing to add more of your unfounded inferences, then you simply do notmerit any response to your bevy of words..............
Yes, I
In a multitude of words, sin is not far behind. You are a little bit old to be so un learned. Yes, I say it outright, unlike your inferrences....try being direct sometime. It is cathartic.

if your a child of God. why should this worry you?

Is God going to throw his child to hell?

 

[garee]

So we can never separate works and salvation, they are the different sides of the same
coin.

I would agree we cannot separate Christ’s work of faith from salvation. The penny he gives has his picture on both sides .You could say a two headed coin, a penny

The difference here between the groups is should be do good works no matter what,
on analyse why we do them? I hold we should do them whatever.

I would say analyse the wonderful works that he works in us. Just don’t offer them as wonderful works as something we performed . Remember it is he who performs that which is appointed to us, as he does work to both will and do his good pleasure as an imputed righteousness not of our selves like the example in Mathew below.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Christ did not say he did not do the works , but he was hoping for a righteousness’ in respect to their own self ,self-righteous.
Christ who is not served by human hands can yo use an unbeliever

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that “work” iniquity
I
mpossible to separate works from faith. But whose faith make His work perfect as in complete. Of men or of Christ, of God ?

After Abraham or after the Spirit of Christ that lived in him? If we would attribute that faith to the person of Abraham he would be placed in the same place of the Mathew example. And Christ would of said I never knew you Abraham . We know Him as His works work in us, not from us. Big difference from in and of.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:22

A person must first and foremost be born again. Then we as new creatures they can work out what he freely gives (not work for) by doing the good pleasure of his word.

 

[HisHolly]

A list of " must do" ? Never.. I know that crap is bondage

I am just fighting legalism. and those who claim eternal life is condition and deny eternal security so they can work to earn salvation.

I have seen it destroy people.. and keep people from God..

I never claim it as a waste of time,, even if I make a mistake, I would rather do that than not warn a person.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A list of " must do" ? Never.. I know that crap is bondage

You do not know how glad I am to hear you say that, PRAISE GOD!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

I work out my salvation with fear and trembling.........just as we are taught to do. Please do not come baack with "perfect love casts out all fear,," ok?

My concern is my heavenly reward , if you are capable of understanding this without a torent of your own verbosity. You see our reward in heaven will be eternal..........eternity is forever......I sure would hate to be there almost penniless in the heavnly reward regard..........think........you accuse so often.

Doing works to get something in return is still missing the mark.

 

[Grace777x70]

I am just fighting legalism. and those who claim eternal life is condition and deny eternal security so they can work to earn salvation.

I have seen it destroy people.. and keep people from God..

I never claim it as a waste of time,, even if I make a mistake, I would rather do that than not warn a person.

I agree.....there are also warnings about walking by the flesh too which brings destruction to all of us. The thing is - there is "good" looking flesh and "bad" looking flesh.

The "good" flesh condemns the bad flesh. Good flesh could be those that have malice and they slander others in the body of Christ. Good flesh hides in pride, jealousy, hypocrisy, envy.

The bad flesh is seen by the good flesh people are those that do the "biggie sins" that they don't do. The funny thing is that all these "flesh types" are in the exact same lists.

I firmly believe we need to be teaching the grace of God and how to walk by the spirit.

 

[HisHolly]

I was a stripper when I got saved.. they gave me teachings of that garbage that only made me feel like a failure BC I couldn't do it all. I didn't know how.. I know what torture works based teaching brings..

You do not know how glad I am to hear you say that, PRAISE GOD!!

 

[Stephen63]

Is there a problem with this thread?

Is anyone differentiating between work of the law (Judiasism), fleshly works, and righteous works, a result of being changed by God?

The first was done away with by Christ, the second was mentioned in the NT as disqualified, & the third was required by Scripture.

Righteous works are spoken by Jesus, "that they may see your good works & glorify the Father in Heaven".

FRUIT of righteous(obedience) was taught by Jesus. "If you love me, keep my commandments".

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

IMO, if folks mix up these three to say ALL is wrong, they are deceiving the people, & the truth is not in them. When God makes us righteous, & puts HIS ability in us, He EXPECTS obedience. He EXPECTS commitment. He EXPECTS us to prove Jesus is Lord by our actions, not by mere words.

 

[garee]

A car can run or not run.. how do you gauge the speed if it is? The speedometer.. likewise.. how can someone know if they are of the faith? Works produced... Glossing over works as a visual helps no one

Defining is not glossing over

It’s not by our work of faith, as a labor of our love that saves us .That would make Christ work of faith without effect. Some say what if some believe not? Will their unbelief make the faith of God without effect.?

I don’t think anyone is glossing over works as the gasoline power to move a vehicle. We have that power or authority in us like a hidden oil field, but is never to be assumed it could be us. That would blaspheme the Holy name we are called by.

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and "not of us'

God forbid we are to let Him be true and every man a liar. .Glossing that over won't get a person moving downhill . The treasure would seem to be in the wrong place (oneself)

 

[gb9]

Is there a problem with this thread?

Is anyone differentiating between work of the law (Judiasism), fleshly works, and righteous works, a result of being changed by God?

The first was done away with by Christ, the second was mentioned in the NT as disqualified, & the third was required by Scripture.

Righteous works are spoken by Jesus, "that they may see your good works & glorify the Father in Heaven".

FRUIT of righteous(obedience) was taught by Jesus. "If you love me, keep my commandments".

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

IMO, if folks mix up these three to say ALL is wrong, they are deceiving the people, & the truth is not in them. When God makes us righteous, & puts HIS ability in us, He EXPECTS obedience. He EXPECTS commitment. He EXPECTS us to prove Jesus is Lord by our actions, not by mere words.

I thought the work of God that he expects us to do is believe in the One He sent. but, I do not filter my beliefs through a denominational strainer, especially one that thinks that everyone can inspect and judge each other's relationship with God, which no one should do.

 

[LaurenTM]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

you trying to cause trouble here?.....

this has become trench warfare...LOL!

with alot of barbed wire in between (opinions)

but you are right of course

 

[EarsToHear]

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (works) of saints.

P.S. Beware of the babbling, upside-down folks. They try to turn right into wrong and wrong into right.

 

[Grace777x70]

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse. Only the blood of Jesus makes us righteous. There are deeds of righteousness which can be done by both saved and unsaved people.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds" but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested in a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man...you will then manifest outwardly who you already are now in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face,beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells and His life gets manifested in love towards others in this hurt and dying world.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

The day you embrace the "gift of righteousness" you will start to be weaned from the milk of the word.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Stephen63]

I thought the work of God that he expects us to do is believe in the One He sent. but, I do not filter my beliefs through a denominational strainer, especially one that thinks that everyone can inspect and judge each other's relationship with God, which no one should do.

ONE-verse wonders.....

Why don't folks read the WHOLE BIBLE, instead of their cherry-picked favorite verses?

When folks depend on one-verse wonders, it should be obvious their lives are INCOMPLETE.

​

 

[dcontroversal]

Our works cannot save us,for our works is as filthy rags,and there is none that does good,no not one,and all are sinners and come short of the glory of God.

So no matter what we do we cannot ever do good enough to receive salvation.

In that position the only thing we can do to correct this position is to have faith,that is why we are saved by faith for that is all we can do,for our works cannot do it.

All we have to do is believe.

Paul said we are not saved by works,but by accepting Christ,which he was addressing Gentiles,and their false religions,that thought they could have favor with God by their religious ways,but Paul said you are not saved by those works but by confessing Christ.

Paul was speaking from a fleshy perspective,not saved by works,and James is speaking from a spiritual perspective,accepting Christ,and being led of the Spirit,justified by works and not faith alone.

If a person does confess Christ,they only have to love people for love is the fulfilling of the law,which is what James is saying,and that is why he said if you do not feed someone when you can,then how do you have faith,and any work they would do apart from that,loving people,like if they go by Old Testament physical ordinances,or do something that another religion would do has no bearing on their salvation,but a waste of time.

Paul,not saved by works,James,but led of the Spirit loving people to have faith active in our life.

The key to understanding the (seemingly)->contradiction<-(not one) between James and Paul is found in the willful rejection of and or ignorance of the context of both statements....

Paul's application of faith is before God-->a man is justified by faith <- the just shall live by faith
James is dealing with our inward, invisible faith being seen by MEN by our works

Justified before God by faith <-The just shall live by faith
Our faith justified (seen) before men by our works

There is no contradiction....Salvation which is eternal is based upon faith I.E. acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior by believing that God has raised him from the dead for your ETERNAL justification, salvation, sanctification as payment for your sin.

The works are the result of that salvation which is ALREADY possessed by a believer....as a matter of fact was given before the casting down of the world.......!

 

[dcontroversal]

you trying to cause trouble here?.....

Who me? NOOOOO NOO NOO.....Just posting scriptures of truth.....the rest is collateral damage HAH!

 

[Stephen63]

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse. Only the blood of Jesus makes us righteous. There are deeds of righteousness which can be done by both saved and unsaved people.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds" but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

A sinner can perform righteous deeds..... wow. People can perform righteous deeds & NOT belong to God. Double-wow.

Where's the scripture that says THAT?

1John 2
28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

1John 3
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you;the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Are we gonna listen to G777, or to God's Word?

 

[Utah]

We know them by what they produce, if you produce nothing, then.... You're all talk

Are you producing love with your posts?

If not, you should examine the heart of your fruit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Not only can we never be good enough to deserve salvation nor can we be so bad that we can not be saved.

Ephesisians 2:8-9 [SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— [SUP]9 [/SUP]not by works, so that no one can boast.

I feel overwhelmed with gratitude that God has given me the gift of salvation.

Amen to that...that is why it is based upon grace and mercy....Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound....Jesus dealt with every sin I ever would commit the day he said it is finished....PAID IN FULL........and HIS BLOOD was applied BY FAITH the day I acknowledged him in faith......

 

[dcontroversal]

I find it amazing, that God said he saved us when we were at our worse. that people think AFTER we have been adopted as a child of God, Given the HS who helps giude us, and chastens us, that we can become WORSE that we were BEFORE we were saved.

That seem to be an impossible task. It basically says GOD totally failed in growing us, they even with his inluence and power. we went backward, NOT FORWARD.

I still say that the issues of sin in any believer's life is a non starter when it comes to our eternal security....Did Jesus pay for our sins or not? He became sin for me and took my sin (all of my sin) and nailed it to his cross....when I acknowledge him in faith that sacrifice has been eternally applied to my account....that is where most miss the mark......!