Not By Works

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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Good afternoon DCon from a beautiful windy sunny England...Our God is not a God of confusion...Not only is the truth being denied by some , to be honest i just scroll by it all , but that is easy for me to do because the awful anger is not raged at me...

I have noticed that a certain member seems to have it all out for you , his hatred is spilling over the thread and it is all aimed at you...We are told Dcon that we should shake the dust from our feet and move on , not to waste precious time on those who do not have ears to hear...Such hatred is normally caused by someone who is full of envy , you have something he does not , this thread and people who follow in the name of our LORD...

Anyway brother , just sending some sisterly love your way , in Jesus name Amen...P.S...I do believe this man will eventually be given enough rope...xox...
One of the problems there that exists is each issue in theology can be represented by a number of parallel lines going down a page. Each line represents the different valid meanings of that issue in theology. Going beyond that line is heresy. This concept I learned in a class on theological concepts. Each issue covered was discussed and the limits defined. What impressed me the most is how far apart the extreme ends were and still considered valid.

The Apostles Creed issues are very narrow while all others are wide. For this reason we need to agree to disagree about these peripheral issues. So please argue these issues gently please.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW.(rom 3:19). IT WAS CREATED BY GOD FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that LAW IS MADE NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and LIARS and perjurers—and for whatever else is CONTRARY TO THE SOUND DOCTRINE that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

OUR LORD DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF UNDER THE LAW WHEN HE SAID;

John 15:25 But this is to fulfill what is written in THEIR Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH".

1 Corinthians 15:55-57 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

“BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US" MEANS “ BY DYING FOR US" SINCE THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH”, AND THE GOSPEL CLEARLY SAYS THAT CHRIST DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS(JUSTIFICATION).

NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST TELLS US THAT “HE WAS CURSED” FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND THAT WORD IS GOD.(john 1:1-3 & 14) GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY, THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD, THE CREATOR, LAW GIVER AND THE JUDGE(james 4:12) AND NO ONE CAN JUDGE OR CURSE HIM OR CALL HIM “CURSED".

Galatians 3:10,13 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who DOES NOT CONTINUE TO DO everything written in the Book of the Law.”

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

New International Version 1984 Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS "CURSED", WHO REJECT THE TRUTH AND TEACH DISOBEDIENCE BY REJECTING GOD'S WORDS.

Romans 3:4 ...Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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1 John 3:7-8 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Can you give a percentage breakdown on this, is it a 50 - 50 split.... 25 - 75 split, this always comes to my mind when people mix faith and works as a combination for salvation? :confused:
I'm going to put my trust in Jesus 100 percent for eternal salvation and zero percent works for salvation; no humming nor hawing, no trying to twist scripture, no saying well maybe I can help Jesus save me just a little bit, no sir, 100 percent saved by grace alone.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Amen and Amen!!

Secure in Jesus, because that is who He is, Faithful and True! :)



I'm going to put my trust in Jesus 100 percent for eternal salvation and zero percent works for salvation; no humming nor hawing, no trying to twist scripture, no saying well maybe I can help Jesus save me just a little bit, no sir, 100 percent saved by grace alone.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Most of the time you two ignore the relationship between faith and works.
The issue is as the Bible in James states, "Faith without works is dead.

Faith with works is valid faith.
Faith without works is dead faith.
As Paul stated" I show you my faith with my works."
Faith with works saves.
Faith without works is doesn't save.

Therefore faith saves only with the resulting works.
At 73 and a Christian all of my life I have seen the new Christians have more fire in the belly to get others to believe. Why is this? I have been in several classes teaching how to witness. These programs last a few months and fade away.
Christian all your life you say....the bolded is false...it is faith that saves..not faith and works..get that through your head....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Can you give a percentage breakdown on this, is it a 50 - 50 split.... 25 - 75 split, this always comes to my mind when people mix faith and works as a combination for salvation? :confused:
Faith with works saves is a false doctrine.......and he has been a Christian his whole life...all 73 years....I guess he was born and knew he was a sinner and trusted JESUS at .00000000001 seconds into his life....

How can one be 73 and a Christian their WHOLE LIFE...............

ENDO...how can you be a Christian your whole life? can you explain that...??
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I'm going to put my trust in Jesus 100 percent for eternal salvation and zero percent works for salvation; no humming nor hawing, no trying to twist scripture, no saying well maybe I can help Jesus save me just a little bit, no sir, 100 percent saved by grace alone.
and you would be correct.....

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE <--this is clear

BUT ACCORDING to HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US <---this is also clear

It is faith and faith alone that saves a man....period....FAITH AND WORKS DOES NOT SAVE A MAN
 
Dec 12, 2013
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One of the problems there that exists is each issue in theology can be represented by a number of parallel lines going down a page. Each line represents the different valid meanings of that issue in theology. Going beyond that line is heresy. This concept I learned in a class on theological concepts. Each issue covered was discussed and the limits defined. What impressed me the most is how far apart the extreme ends were and still considered valid.

The Apostles Creed issues are very narrow while all others are wide. For this reason we need to agree to disagree about these peripheral issues. So please argue these issues gently please.
SHE has the bible....it is all she needs......the Apostle's Creed is not the rule of faith and practice....and ROSE is very perceptive and understands salvation very well....she gets faith and that what saves is faith....no works attached to gain, keep or top off salvation which is a one off eternal event at the moment of belief.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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I'm just curious, what's the fear in saying faith without works saves? Do you feel like faith isn't enough to transform a person to walk as Christ calls us to walk?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I'm just curious, what's the fear in saying faith without works saves? Do you feel like faith isn't enough to transform a person to walk as Christ calls us to walk?
a. One must get over religious persuasion
b. One must be honest with the facts and context
c. One must be honest with verb tense
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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Here's a interesting Scripture I haven't seen referenced on this topic:

1 Co 11:18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,[SUP]e[/SUP]19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

Please notice that Paul isn't telling people they need to "do" something, he's showing that those who are not living in unity are simply revealing those who don't believe. The focus is on works, but only so it would reveal their faith. Not that works saves, but that those who were genuinely saved would be recognized. We must remember the focus of "works" in Scripture is to bring people back to a face-to-face encounter with their Savior and the work He is doing (and has done) in them. We love because He loved us first. If we don't love one another, we don't know His love for ourselves. And in my opinion sometimes this person isn't saved and sometimes they are, but they are not discipled.
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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I'm just curious, what's the fear in saying faith without works saves? Do you feel like faith isn't enough to transform a person to walk as Christ calls us to walk?
Excellent question Cee, I'm all for going full steam ahead on the "Great Commission", Matthew28:19, but when it comes to a man or womans "eternal destiny, please leave that to our Savior Jesus Christ. Pride the original sin is what keeps many people from trusting in Jesus a 100 percent.

It is the judgment seat of Christ that some may also fear. But Christians will be judged for "rewards not punishment" This is basic "Sunday School Theology" really so nothing new being said here.

Like someone once said "where's the beef"
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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I WONDER WHAT GOD WILL SAY TO THOSE WHO CLAIM TO HAVE A "FAITH ALONE" THAT SAVES AND AT THE SAME TIME TEACHES AND CALLS JESUS "CURSED".

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

VERY TRAGIC.
 
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Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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One of the problems there that exists is each issue in theology can be represented by a number of parallel lines going down a page. Each line represents the different valid meanings of that issue in theology. Going beyond that line is heresy. This concept I learned in a class on theological concepts. Each issue covered was discussed and the limits defined. What impressed me the most is how far apart the extreme ends were and still considered valid.

The Apostles Creed issues are very narrow while all others are wide. For this reason we need to agree to disagree about these peripheral issues. So please argue these issues gently please.
I am sorry , but i have no idea what you are talking about :confused:...I hear my LORD , His voice is clear in my hearing , He calls and I follow...I rest in Him , I graze in the pastures He has given me , my faith is in Him alone , my hope is in Him alone , Ii did nothing to make Him call me , I do nothing to make Him keep me , it is and always has and always will be His dong , for by GRACE we have been saved , not by works lest anyone should boast...

I come to my LORD with faith like a child , I believe what He tells me , I need not to add anything to His words when He said " It is finished "...xox...
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Good afternoon DCon from a beautiful windy sunny England...Our God is not a God of confusion...Not only is the truth being denied by some , to be honest i just scroll by it all , but that is easy for me to do because the awful anger is not raged at me...

I have noticed that a certain member seems to have it all out for you , his hatred is spilling over the thread and it is all aimed at you...We are told Dcon that we should shake the dust from our feet and move on , not to waste precious time on those who do not have ears to hear...Such hatred is normally caused by someone who is full of envy , you have something he does not , this thread and people who follow in the name of our LORD...

Anyway brother , just sending some sisterly love your way , in Jesus name Amen...P.S...I do believe this man will eventually be given enough rope...xox...
New International Version 1984 Philippians 3:7-16 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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New International Version 1984 Romans 12:9,21 Love Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
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North Carolina
I'm going to put my trust in Jesus 100 percent for eternal salvation and zero percent works for salvation; no humming nor hawing, no trying to twist scripture, no saying well maybe I can help Jesus save me just a little bit, no sir, 100 percent saved by grace alone.


Amen and amen. That sums up salvation. Period
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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48
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I WONDER WHAT GOD WILL SAY TO THOSE WHO CLAIM TO HAVE A "FAITH ALONE" THAT SAVES AND AT THE SAME TIME TEACHES AND CALLS JESUS "CURSED".

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

VERY TRAGIC.
Nice twist of scripture, out of context and used to hang your invalid, deceitful post on....the more you type...the more obvious it is that the Spirit of God is not leading you......