Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
If Jesus chose Judas why did he say

John 6:64-65
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
I do not know. I only think that he chose Judas knowing Judas would be the traitor that would bring him to the cross.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
another man suggesting men have power to break what is kept by the power of God


your false gospel suggest men have the power to save themself
and men have the power to destroy what God has sealed


sorry ben

men aint got it like that
Men obviously do not have power to save themselves, you can rest assured I do not believe that.

But men do have the power to destroy themselves. Too many examples in the bible of good men that eventually turned on Jesus and lost their salvation. Can you tell me one story where a man or group of men have turned away from Christ and lost their salvation?

The false doctrine is ES/OSAS.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
So that is the proof. I don't believe 100% of what you believe, therefore that is proof that I have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit. Is that arrogant or is it humility?

Really, are you kidding? If I believed 100% of what you believe, then it is proof that I have had the baptism of the spirit. It is certainly not humility, it is a boastful arrogance that you and you alone know when a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit.

You condemn 90% of Christians of not having the baptism of the spirit. Hope your little band is humble about their salvation, because you are not, and I do not appreciate your little proofs about the Holy Spirit.
We will let HIM answer you.

This Scripture is ONLY talking about those who Call themselves Christian:

Matthew 7:13-16 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction,
and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?


Matthew 7:21-23 (NCV)
21 “Not all those who say that I am their Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.
The only people who will enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do what my Father in heaven wants.
22 On the last day many people will say to me, ’Lord, Lord, we spoke for you, and through you we forced out demons and did many miracles.’
23 Then I will tell them clearly, ’Get away from me, you who do evil. I never knew you.’


1 John 4:6 (NCV)
6 But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us.
But those who are not from God do not listen to us.
That is how we know the Spirit that is true and the spirit that is false.

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
Men obviously do not have power to save themselves, you can rest assured I do not believe that.

But men do have the power to destroy themselves. Too many examples in the bible of good men that eventually turned on Jesus and lost their salvation. Can you tell me one story where a man or group of men have turned away from Christ and lost their salvation?

The false doctrine is ES/OSAS.
And when you finally find out that your whole doctrine is based on a lie, WHAT WILL YOU DO?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
well you dont understand the scriptures or rightly divide

i know this because the false gospel you push which attempts to pervert Gods character as well as steal His glory and give it to men


here is a verse i hope you understand without me trying to explain it to you in loving correction

john 3
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


(i hope you know what whosoever means..... what believeth means..... and what not perish means... and what eternal life means... and who "Him" is)
You have cut and pasted this response before.

What do you mean by 'rightly divide'?

Mark 16
16 And Jesus also said, he that believeth and is baptized will be saved... (and do not deflect what is obvious to be saved, by talking about what makes you be damned, the discussion is what you have to do to be saved, not what you have to do to be damned)
So which scripture will you ignore?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
you believe men have the power to destroy what is kept by the power of God


it isnt biblical or true

but it is what you believe
Read what Jesus says in Revelations about several of the churches. We can assume that he is talking about churches that have at least some saved people. But the church is told that if it doesn't repent it will be lost.

Why must someone repent if they have ES/OSAS?

To ask it another way, if you have ES/OSAS, why must you repent?

If there is one instance in the bible the shows a saved person losing his salvation, will you believe me?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
You have cut and pasted this response before.

What do you mean by 'rightly divide'?

Mark 16
16 And Jesus also said, he that believeth and is baptized will be saved... (and do not deflect what is obvious to be saved, by talking about what makes you be damned, the discussion is what you have to do to be saved, not what you have to do to be damned)
So which scripture will you ignore?
i ignore no scriptures unlike you

.... every time i post scripture that refutes your belief you will ignore it or dig up some other post


first of all

i know that all who are saved have been baptized by the Holy Spirit (not water baptism)
but
if Jesus said
everyone who believes in me is saved

this is true

He can also later say
anyone who believes in me and pats their belly and rubs their head is saved

neither of these are false

but it does not mean rubbing your head and patting your stomach are needed to be saved because He already said everyone who believes in me is saved


and what i mean by rightly divide

is exactly what i said last time you asked


i mean divide instruction from
reproof from the law from grace from anything else being spoken

i mean to understand what it is youre reading (which you do not)


what YOU do not believe is


16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


you add on to this
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
So you think, BUT, CHRIST SAYS DIFFERENT.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, {GENUINE SALVATION}
you will keep My commands.


2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.



I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS INSPIRED BY GOD, IN IT'S ENTIRETY,

Your beliefs come from SOMETHING ELSE.



2 Timothy 3:16 (GWT)
16 Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (GWT)
20 First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation.
21 No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God's direction.
According to decan, the only inspired bible are the original Greek, Hebrew, and maybe the Aramaic. So what bible do you read from, I'm just guessing, but according to decon you are not reading an inspired version.

If you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. I agree. So tell me a few of Jesus's commandments, and lets see if the rest of the thread confirm what you say is the truth, and that we will keep these commandments.

So lets say that we do not keep 1 or 2 of these commandments, do we lose our salvation? Doesn't the words 'keep my commandments' just rub you wrong? Yet there it is in writing. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. The reverse it also true. If you do not love me, you will not keep my commandments. What happens then?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Read what Jesus says in Revelations about several of the churches. We can assume that he is talking about churches that have at least some saved people. But the church is told that if it doesn't repent it will be lost.

Why must someone repent if they have ES/OSAS?

To ask it another way, if you have ES/OSAS, why must you repent?

If there is one instance in the bible the shows a saved person losing his salvation, will you believe me?
there is no instance of a "saved person"

a born again son/daughter of God losing salvation in the bible

there are only promises from God against that
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,371
113
there is no instance of a "saved person"

a born again son/daughter of God losing salvation in the bible

there are only promises from God against that
Exactly..........saved to the UTTERMOST, KEPT by the POWER OF GOD through FAITH, NEVER leave thee or FORSAKE THEE, SEALED with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE.......etc........amazing how many people believe they can be saved at their worst, totally lost in sin and then lose it like a dime in the dust......ignorance for sure!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
i ignore no scriptures unlike you

.... every time i post scripture that refutes your belief you will ignore it or dig up some other post


first of all

i know that all who are saved have been baptized by the Holy Spirit (not water baptism)
but
if Jesus said
everyone who believes in me is saved

this is true

He can also later say
anyone who believes in me and pats their belly and rubs their head is saved

neither of these are false

but it does not mean rubbing your head and patting your stomach are needed to be saved because He already said everyone who believes in me is saved


and what i mean by rightly divide

is exactly what i said last time you asked


i mean divide instruction from
reproof from the law from grace from anything else being spoken

i mean to understand what it is youre reading (which you do not)


what YOU do not believe is


16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


you add on to this
I see. So if Jesus says whosoever believes in me shall be saved, then thats it.

If he says later, whosoever believeth in me and is baptized will be saved, you can ignore the baptism part of it as divided out of what it really means to be saved. (one small problem, when did he say believe and be saved and when did he actually say believe and be baptized to be saved? Which one was actually said first?)

If you are going to go for what Jesus said first as to how one is saved, you will likely find the sermon on the mount to be his first words preached about being saved. Matthew 5-7.
Go there to start your research about what Jesus taught about being saved.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
i ignore no scriptures unlike you

.... every time i post scripture that refutes your belief you will ignore it or dig up some other post


first of all

i know that all who are saved have been baptized by the Holy Spirit (not water baptism)
but
if Jesus said
everyone who believes in me is saved

this is true

He can also later say
anyone who believes in me and pats their belly and rubs their head is saved

neither of these are false

but it does not mean rubbing your head and patting your stomach are needed to be saved because He already said everyone who believes in me is saved


and what i mean by rightly divide

is exactly what i said last time you asked


i mean divide instruction from
reproof from the law from grace from anything else being spoken

i mean to understand what it is youre reading (which you do not)


what YOU do not believe is


16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


you add on to this
So if Jesus adds on, you can ignore his words? Good dividing, just ignore.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
According to decan, the only inspired bible are the original Greek, Hebrew, and maybe the Aramaic. So what bible do you read from, I'm just guessing, but according to decon you are not reading an inspired version.

If you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. I agree. So tell me a few of Jesus's commandments, and lets see if the rest of the thread confirm what you say is the truth, and that we will keep these commandments.

So lets say that we do not keep 1 or 2 of these commandments, do we lose our salvation? Doesn't the words 'keep my commandments' just rub you wrong? Yet there it is in writing. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. The reverse it also true. If you do not love me, you will not keep my commandments. What happens then?
Before I put you on my IGNORE LIST, I will answer this post.

I is NOT the translated version that is inspired, which even includes the KJV, it is the ACTUAL WORD OF GOD that was Inspired. In other words, the ORIGINAL in the Quill and Ink hand written by the original authors hand writing.

We believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. The Bible is therefore without error (inerrant) in its original manuscripts. (Dr. Charles Stanley's - First Baptist Church)
What you refuse to admit, and I quoted you the VERSES THAT SAID SO, is ONLY true Believer's will have the Biblical Characteristic in their Human Spirit that will always Genuinely Believe in HIM. All others who can stop believing in HIM, NEVER were REAL CHRISTIANS, with a Born Again, Eternally Alive Human Spirit to continue in that BELIEF.

TO LOVE HIM with your whole heart = SALVATION, which takes the HOLY SPIRIT actually IN YOUR HEART.

TO NOT LOVE HIM, is anything that is LESS = UNSAVED, which means you are not Born Again, not matter how many times you have been Baptized in Water.

Are we Perfect at LOVING HIM?

NO, but GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ME YET.


Philippians 1:6 (ESV)
6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
So if Jesus adds on, you can ignore his words? Good dividing, just ignore.
i never said ignore His words

that is just you either trying to bait me

or misunderstanding my words

but i explained them clearly
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,019
519
113
i never said ignore His words

that is just you either trying to bait me

or misunderstanding my words

but i explained them clearly

Explain how a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, is still saved.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.



JPT