Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Correct, but you were saved the MOMENT you first Believed, BEFORE YOU DID ANY WORKS. Works are Part of the LOVE that GOD had the HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS. Rom. 5:5


My mistake, that first sentence should read: Correct, but you were saved the MOMENT you first Believed, BEFORE YOU DID ANY WORKS,
YOU WERE SAVED.
 
Jun 12, 2018
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It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!! OH MY LORD, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Remember, We are justified through FAITH, Saved through FAITH, not of ourselfs, it is the gift of God.

It is the work of God we entrust our eternity to him.

Like abraham, we are saved not by works of righteousness which we have done, are doing or will do, but by his mercy,
So now you throw away John 3:16 and believing is not enough. Is that because the parable of the sower helped us understand that even a believer can lose his salvation?

Now it is all about 'faith'. What is it, belief or faith? And now abide faith, hope, and charity, but the greatest of these is 'charity'.
If 'faith' is the path to EL, what could be more important than that. Well the scriptures tell us that 'charity' is more important.

So if 'charity'is greater than 'faith', define 'charity', thank you.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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My mistake, that first sentence should read: Correct, but you were saved the MOMENT you first Believed, BEFORE YOU DID ANY WORKS,
YOU WERE SAVED.
Of course trhat is not just any old belief. It is true saving faith..
 
Mar 14, 2011
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So now you throw away John 3:16 and believing is not enough. Is that because the parable of the sower helped us understand that even a believer can lose his salvation?

Now it is all about 'faith'. What is it, belief or faith? And now abide faith, hope, and charity, but the greatest of these is 'charity'.
If 'faith' is the path to EL, what could be more important than that. Well the scriptures tell us that 'charity' is more important.

So if 'charity'is greater than 'faith', define 'charity', thank you.
You will have to go on ignore if you keep this nonsense up, You keep twisting my words. I am done playing childish games. Maybe you like to play games. But this is a serious matter, and if your just going to take what others say and twist it and make them either not say what they diud say, or say something they never said then you have no moral standing,
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Why, if someone is baptized, can you faith not be in God and what he told us to do? Jesus was baptized and told us to do the same. Why does this eliminate faith in God?
If I am baptised BECAUSE I am saved, I am doing it because I love God, God is the focus

If I am doing it to earn or maintain my salvation, I am doing it to gain somethign for my self. I get the credit, I get the glory, and the reward (in this case salvation) is mine (I have earned it) (God gets no glory)

See the difference?
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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You will have to go on ignore if you keep this nonsense up, You keep twisting my words. I am done playing childish games. Maybe you like to play games. But this is a serious matter, and if your just going to take what others say and twist it and make them either not say what they diud say, or say something they never said then you have no moral standing,

bro all i see from those who push the anti-grace revolving door salvation doctrine

is untruth after untruth

i sometimes wonder if they can even tell what they are doing is manipulating others words and beliefs

twisting the scriptures

and perverting Gods character
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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mark 4

3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


______________

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

(called but not chosen <- no saving faith
not born again.... no root


their hearts were not transformed but rejected the seed
they would reject Him the moment they hear of the truth)

____________

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

(again no root... not born again
no enduring faith


trials and tribulations were enough to prove they did not have a saving faith)
______________

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.


(no saving faith... they turn from the knowledge of God to jump back into a life of living in and justifying sin and worldly pleasures instead of accepting they are wicked and need Him)

(like the reprobate)

(never born again)

Romans 1
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

____________



20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

^^
(theeeese are born again sons/daughters of God)

___________
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


(and unlike demons who know of Him but have no faith IN Him

there is fruit due to being rooted IN Him)

(born again by grace through faith.... not works)

1 peter


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

(we are those who no doubt continue in the faith)
______________
1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

________
(not those who fall away into unbelief)


heres a bump for context i posted the last time you misused that verse
Lukes rendition actually uses the words 'believed for a time'. See Luke 8:12-13 especailly 13. This changes the whole scenario. Now they are believers (saved) who were on the rocky soil, and choked with weeds. So your interpretation is off.

The Parable of the sower proves ES is a false doctrine.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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can you explain to me why you believe this is about born again believers losing salvation?



you can say "believe in Jesus and by grace are you saved" is false but thats just you speaking


please

explain your understanding of these verses you posted before you make so many assumptions
Well, let's see. Jesus is leaving a message for the 'church at Ephesus'. Not the gnostic church in Antioch. So I presume that these 7 churches had some actual believers (saved) in them. If not, then the entire church of the 1st century had no saved people.

The reason you try to say that they were not believers is your stubborn stance on ES. That a believer can not lose their salvation, and this scripture surely shows you that they can, unless they are all non-believers, so you push that agenda on the 7 churches. Not really very smart, just adjust your ES leaning.

I believe in Jesus and I believe it is by his garce that we are saved, that is not false.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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609
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Lukes rendition actually uses the words 'believed for a time'. See Luke 8:12-13 especailly 13. This changes the whole scenario. Now they are believers (saved) who were on the rocky soil, and choked with weeds. So your interpretation is off.

The Parable of the sower proves ES is a false doctrine.

your claims prove you cannot understand parables

you think the demons who believe and tremble are saved too?




anyways
genuine saving faith endures


a non saving faith will not endure

plain and simple

and like the scriptures prove

we (born again believers) are not of them who fall back

but of them that believe unto salvation
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,016
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No, this happens when you repent and have faith, The tax collector did not just believe, He had pure saving faith. Of course you know we say this, you just refuse to acknowledge it,



Whatever, You have never heard me sat mere belief or mental agreement has saved anyone, or anyone else for that matter, I have seen numerous people tell you this, But as usual, you have selective hearing, Now take your slander someplace else please.

And justpassing through can take his with you..
Slander. Please. Have you not pushed in my face John 3:16 1,000 times? I guess you have now ripped that scripture out of the bible.

You whole tone changed on the word 'believe' when justpassinthrough showed you in Luke 8:12-13 that those seeds that fell on stoney ground, believed for a while, but then lost their salvation as they were tempted and persecuted. Now you say that in order to be saved you must repent and have faith. Well, that is what I believe. The difference between belief and faith is actions accompany faith. IOW faith is accompanied by good works.

So at least we are coming closer together.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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bump for ben

vvvvv

these verses have nothing to do with salvation

other than the last giving assurance to His own


you think the 7 candlesticks represent bundles of salvation that are taken away?:ROFL:


no.

they represent the churches

your false gospel doesnt hold up to any sort of biblical standards

Revelation 2
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

To ephesus specifically- an actual church
this is what HE (Jesus) says
to the 7 candlesticks which are the 7 churches



2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

He knows this church does well according to their deeds and are able to cast down false doctrine and cannot stand those who push these false doctrine



3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

they have done these things in the name of Jesus and do not tire of doing these specific good deeds

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.


But God is upset because He sees their zeal... their passion they once had died down despite their works He sees their hearts

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


remember the passion and love they once had for our Father back when they had first been delivered from the world and overcame

and fully do these things you USED to do with passion and love instead of some dutiful half hearted attempt or else God will remove this church - candlestick (which is no longer around) unless they repent of this lack of love

3340. metanoeó
Strong's Concordance​
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.​



6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

but you still have done well in hating the deeds of these i also hate from the nicolaitanes <- encouragement to wrap up the warning and reproof

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

To those that have an ear <- His sheep this Spirit reminds us

those of us who have overcome you have my word you will eat of the tree of life <- assurance to His children He just chastened and warned




1 john


4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God



BENS ANTI-GRACE GOSPEL - 0

TRUTH - 1


^^^^^^^

ben claims these verses are about born again believers losing salvation

ben claims many verses "destroy" eternal security

ben has yet to post one
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,800
415
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You will have to go on ignore if you keep this nonsense up, You keep twisting my words. I am done playing childish games. Maybe you like to play games. But this is a serious matter, and if your just going to take what others say and twist it and make them either not say what they diud say, or say something they never said then you have no moral standing,
Amen E-g, benher was twisting my words from the very first day, non stop even up to today, I feel as you do that I am talking to a child who is playing word games with no ending. He had to ask NoName, what does "Rightly Dividing God's Truth" mean, really?

benhur is already on my ignore list. Nothing but foolish twisting of scripture and a lot of nonsense.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Slander. Please. Have you not pushed in my face John 3:16 1,000 times? I guess you have now ripped that scripture out of the bible.

You whole tone changed on the word 'believe' when justpassinthrough showed you in Luke 8:12-13 that those seeds that fell on stoney ground, believed for a while, but then lost their salvation as they were tempted and persecuted. Now you say that in order to be saved you must repent and have faith. Well, that is what I believe. The difference between belief and faith is actions accompany faith. IOW faith is accompanied by good works.

So at least we are coming closer together.
Thats it, I am done,

1. I have not pushed john 3: 16, I think your talking about other people

2. I have told you numerous times now. John 3 talks about true saving faith, Not mere belief (even demons believe)
3. You keep pushing like i have done something, when I have not, and like I said, I am done playing games.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,800
415
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For the self-righteous, I can save myself group;

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans10:13
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John3:18

But I, with shouts of grateful praise, will sacrifice to you. What I have vowed I will make good. I will say,
'Salvation comes from the LORD.'"Jonah2:9
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,603
609
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Thats it, I am done,

1. I have not pushed john 3: 16, I think your talking about other people

2. I have told you numerous times now. John 3 talks about true saving faith, Not mere belief (even demons believe)
3. You keep pushing like i have done something, when I have not, and like I said, I am done playing games.

give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast ye your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you

comes to mind right now
 
Oct 31, 2015
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bro all i see from those who push the anti-grace revolving door salvation doctrine

is untruth after untruth

i sometimes wonder if they can even tell what they are doing is manipulating others words and beliefs

twisting the scriptures

and perverting Gods character

you will have to do better than make up lies, as none here is "anti-grace".


Grace is the Holy Spirit given to those who believe, which means obey.


Without the Spirit of Grace, no one is regenerated, or born again, and no one can walk according to the Spirit.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast ye your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you

comes to mind right now

You have presented nothing that is holy, since you promote a doctrine that is a license to sin, and still be saved.


Utter Nonsense:

A doctrine of demons.



JPT
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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That word believe, Is not just ordinary belief. It means literally, you are trusting a person to the point you are assured that what they say is correct. and your assured that what they promise they will carry out.

Mental agreement is not faith. NO ONE is saved because they just believe Jesus lived and died on the cross. NO ONE.
Wow, it just seems to me that John 3:16 means nothing to you. Explain that to me.