Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
those verses have nothing to do with salvation

other than the last giving assurance to His own


you think the 7 candlesticks represent bundles of salvation that are taken away?:ROFL:


no.

they represent the churches

your false gospel doesnt hold up to any sort of biblical standards

Revelation 2
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

To ephesus specifically- an actual church
this is what HE (Jesus) says
to the 7 candlesticks which are the 7 churches



2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

He knows this church does well according to their deeds and are able to cast down false doctrine and cannot stand those who push these false doctrine



3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

they have done these things in the name of Jesus and do not tire of doing these specific good deeds

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.


But God is upset because He sees their zeal... their passion they once had died down despite their works He sees their hearts

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


remember the passion and love they once had for our Father back when they had first been delivered from the world and overcame

and fully do these things you USED to do with passion and love instead of some dutiful half hearted attempt or else God will remove this church - candlestick (which is no longer around) unless they repent of this lack of love

3340. metanoeó
Strong's Concordance​
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.​



6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

but you still have done well in hating the deeds of these i also hate from the nicolaitanes <- encouragement to wrap up the warning and reproof

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

To those that have an ear <- His sheep this Spirit reminds us

those of us who have overcome you have my word you will eat of the tree of life <- assurance to His children He just chastened and warned




1 john


4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God



BENS ANTI-GRACE GOSPEL - 0

TRUTH - 1
Those verses have everything to do with salvation. Jesus says to the saved of the church of Ephesus, Repent or I will remove your candle from among the 7 other candlesticks. That means that they will be removed from EL. Is EL have something to do with salvation. Get a grip.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
Not all of us... My parents tell me I was baptized (sprinkled) as an infant, but I have never been water baptized as an adult, and have no plans to do so.


Because it's not.

As VCO said, Eph 4:5 says there is ONE baptism, and 1 Cor 12:13 says that it's by the one spirit that we are baptized into the body of Christ.


Are you referring to Mark 16:16? There is much evidence that Mark 16:9-20 are not authentic.
Not authentic. OK if that is your stand, hope it doesn't turn out to be a sand trap. And as for that logic, since we have no original bible pages, the whole thing could be riddled with non-authentic words. Great, now what do we do?
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,977
1,055
113
Those verses have everything to do with salvation. Jesus says to the saved of the church of Ephesus, Repent or I will remove your candle from among the 7 other candlesticks. That means that they will be removed from EL. Is EL have something to do with salvation. Get a grip.

just more scriptureless opinions from a man who gives men the power to save themself

another twister of words and creator of strawmen arguments

imputing beliefs to others they do not hold

and imputing meaning to scriptures they do not mean

i have a solid grip on truth
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
ya ive heard professing jews and muslims say they believe He died on the cross and was a real man

they just deny He is Christ and have no belief in His promises or word

if you deny Him as the only Lord and savior and call Him a liar...

that isnt faith in Him
You do not get away with that. A believer is one that believes in Jesus Christ, that he died on the cross and saved us from our sins. That is what a true believer believes. You are grasping at straws.

Is John 3:16 still valid then?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
456
83
Not authentic. OK if that is your stand, hope it doesn't turn out to be a sand trap.
It won't.

And as for that logic, since we have no original bible pages, the whole thing could be riddled with non-authentic words. Great, now what do we do?
Lets not blow things out of proportion.... We have somewhere near 6000 manuscripts of NT writings. Mark 16:9-20 is not in some of the earlier ones. That fact, and some other things I will not get into now, indicates that the last verses of Mark 16 are not authentic.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
YOU ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

If you add anything to it, whether it be Water Baptism, Church Membership, and even a certain level of obedience, IT IS A FALSE GOSPEL.

YOU ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS A GIFT OF GOD.

NOTHING YOU CAN DO, ADDS TO IT. IT IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD, when you want to ADD something to it, YOU ROB GOD OF HIS GLORY.

I ask you again, are you a MORMON? I have only seen this kind of INSISTANCE, when they think that MORMAN BAPTISM SAVES.
Even a certain level of obedience? Wow, you have it bad. You can only obey Jesus somewhat, or you have a false gospel? Wow you are really stuck on a sandy surface.

I am one of those Christians that believe that baptism of water and baptism of the spirit are both necessary for salvation. Lots of other Christians believe like me.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
456
83
I am one of those Christians that believe that baptism of water and baptism of the spirit are both necessary for salvation.
Eph 4:
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1 Cor 12:
13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Lots of other Christians believe like me.
That's true. Does that make them right?
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,977
1,055
113
You have presented nothing that is holy, since you promote a doctrine that is a license to sin, and still be saved.


Utter Nonsense:

A doctrine of demons.



JPT

more lies and garbage from you

.... im not sure i ever saw an honest post from you:unsure:


no matter how many times people falsely accuse children of God who have assurance in His promises of "wanting sin" it doesnt make it true

one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is

"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"

:rolleyes:


that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing

a saved born again believer is now a new creature

an adopted son/daughter of God

when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"

it registers as "failure"

and God chastens His own children

we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points


but when we do sin
it is a failure

not "what we want"


thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate

i know i have no power to save myself
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
false

the "teaching of the Sower" does not teach what you say it does

ive done a break down for you many times

😏
In your break down did you use the 'word' believe once? If not, then you are not teaching the truth.

So all those words you cut and pasted are not telling the truth about the parable of the sower, which is proof that ES is not true. You are trying to make it prove that ES is true. It does not fit according to Luke.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,977
1,055
113
:unsure: the wolves are frisky today it seems

i thank God that His sheep have a shepard to keep them safe from your attacks;)

did you know He will not even lose one of His?

Jesus said it himself:giggle:
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
your claims prove you cannot understand parables

you think the demons who believe and tremble are saved too?




anyways
genuine saving faith endures


a non saving faith will not endure

plain and simple

and like the scriptures prove

we (born again believers) are not of them who fall back

but of them that believe unto salvation
Where did you read in the parable that the seed was thrown to demons who believed and trembled for a time? It doesn't, so who understand the parable?

In order for you to get around Luke 8:12-13 you have confessed that John 3:16 is not true, and you have now quoted a passage from James about devils believing. You want to talk about twisting in the wind to get around your problem?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,186
966
113
false

the "teaching of the Sower" does not teach what you say it does

ive done a break down for you many times

😏
Yes you are correct, but benhur is trying to say there is no eternal security based on a lie from the "Parable of the Sower" in addition to misinterpretation of the bible, you cannot prove a doctrine of the church is right or wrong based on "one verse" in the bible, thus his applications of the bible are a lie as well. The bible proves him wrong.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
It won't.


Lets not blow things out of proportion.... We have somewhere near 6000 manuscripts of NT writings. Mark 16:9-20 is not in some of the earlier ones. That fact, and some other things I will not get into now, indicates that the last verses of Mark 16 are not authentic.
We have some 6000 manuscripts, but none of the originals, so we cannot tell if Mark 16:16 is on the original. So why bring it up? If Mark 16:16 is not in some, but is in other earlier ones, it surely becomes a sandy foundation.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,977
1,055
113
Where did you read in the parable that the seed was thrown to demons who believed and trembled for a time? It doesn't, so who understand the parable?

In order for you to get around Luke 8:12-13 you have confessed that John 3:16 is not true, and you have now quoted a passage from James about devils believing. You want to talk about twisting in the wind to get around your problem?

lol what are you even talking about?

conflating issues again perhaps?


all i hear is nonsense from you

but to answer your question

demons do not believe in Jesus

but they know of Him

just like the willingly ignorant
or the reprobate
or those who arent rooted in Him


eg
myself
dcon
TT
VCO

have explained to you

someone hearing and accepting

Jesus is real
Jesus died for our sin
you are saved by grace through faith in Him


doesnt = genuine belief
genuine faith in Him

how do we know this?

many verses come together to reveal this but here
Hebrews 11:1
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen


do you think turning from this acceptance you think is genuine faith is the substance of things hoped for?

no...

they prove they have no substance
have no faith

when they go on to accept something else as truth instead of Jesus

they become willingly ignorant and forsake their knowledge which to YOU would look like faith

but GOD is not decieved

and if someone does indeed believe
God sees this


this is followed by a new heart

this is followed by a spirit which cries out He is our Father


God working in us doesnt produce unbelief

it produces substance
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,977
1,055
113
Yes you are correct, but benhur is trying to say there is no eternal security based on a lie from the "Parable of the Sower" in addition to misinterpretation of the bible, you cannot prove a doctrine of the church is right or wrong based on "one verse" in the bible, thus his applications of the bible are a lie as well. The bible proves him wrong.
amen bro...
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
Eph 4:
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1 Cor 12:
13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


That's true. Does that make them right?
We believe that the one baptism encompasses the water baptism and the baptism of the spirit, similar to Acts 2:38.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
456
83
We have some 6000 manuscripts, but none of the originals, so we cannot tell if Mark 16:16 is on the original. So why bring it up? If Mark 16:16 is not in some, but is in other earlier ones, it surely becomes a sandy foundation.
Then by your definition, Mark 16:9-20 IS a sandy foundation. It is a FACT that they are not in some earlier manuscripts.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,309
102
63
more lies and garbage from you

.... im not sure i ever saw an honest post from you:unsure:


no matter how many times people falsely accuse children of God who have assurance in His promises of "wanting sin" it doesnt make it true

one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is

"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"

:rolleyes:


that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing

a saved born again believer is now a new creature

an adopted son/daughter of God

when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"

it registers as "failure"

and God chastens His own children

we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points


but when we do sin
it is a failure

not "what we want"


thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate

i know i have no power to save myself
Thank you for walking in the spirit at ALL points. I do thank you. You are a good man for doing that. But you are only 1 of billions that believe that now that I am saved, I can fall (sin) and immediately Jesus forgives me and I am immediately reconciled to God again.

IOW a license to sin.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
456
83
Thank you for walking in the spirit at ALL points. I do thank you. You are a good man for doing that. But you are only 1 of billions that believe that now that I am saved, I can fall (sin) and immediately Jesus forgives me and I am immediately reconciled to God again.

IOW a license to sin.
Rom 6:
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?