Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N
when its speaking of those who worship the beast names not being written in the book of life
this is not because they are blotted out?
i have read every single verse about the book of life many times ben
but you know what
i CAN be wrong about some things
based off of all the verses i came to the conclusion all names are in there
side by side with their works
and wether or not they believe in Christ
those whos names are not found written in the book have been blotted out
Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 3:5 - He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
Exodus 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Psalms 69:28 - Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
if i look at it how you look at it
then how are the dead judged by the book if they were never in it or blotted out to begin with?
im not a liar ben
nor am i perfect
though i dont believe you have ever once proven me wrong
and i can say that with a clear heart
im open to learn
everyone here
can you explain what God has shown you about the book of life?
it is possible my understanding is wrong
and i may indeed be ignorant of many things
but i believe im right about what i said regarding the book of life
if i am in error show me please with scripture
N
fair question.....
well..
He WILL NOT blot out those who believe in Jesus "overcome the world"
Revelation 3:5 - He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels
but does that not imply those who have not overcome (believed in Jesus) will be blotted out when paired with
Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
Exodus 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book
.... it sounds like a future event to me
but i can be wrong
(those who overcome and why)
1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
John 16:33
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
-
2
- Show all
I will answer your question. A large % of Christians do not believe in OSAS or ES. I happen to be one of them.
What you are trying to do with your different definition of 'believe' is make 'believe' to be more like 'faith'. It is not the same thing, no matter how you twist its meaning. John 3:16 says that if you 'believe', you shall have EL. I believe that. But I also believe there is a lot of water that will go under the bridge from the time I believe to the time I have EL. Belief has to move to faith, and faith to charity, (being the greatest of faith, hope, and charity), and it is in this charity vein that we learn to obey the words of Jesus and live a life that follows in his footsteps.
As Paul tell the Colossians, If indeed you continue in the faith, steadfast, and unmoved will you be reconciled to God. The deeper implication is that if you do not continue faithful, you will be blotted out of the book of life.
What you are trying to do with your different definition of 'believe' is make 'believe' to be more like 'faith'. It is not the same thing, no matter how you twist its meaning. John 3:16 says that if you 'believe', you shall have EL. I believe that. But I also believe there is a lot of water that will go under the bridge from the time I believe to the time I have EL. Belief has to move to faith, and faith to charity, (being the greatest of faith, hope, and charity), and it is in this charity vein that we learn to obey the words of Jesus and live a life that follows in his footsteps.
As Paul tell the Colossians, If indeed you continue in the faith, steadfast, and unmoved will you be reconciled to God. The deeper implication is that if you do not continue faithful, you will be blotted out of the book of life.
From the beginning I have always stated that I am not a Christian that believes in OSAS or ES. So that has never changed. I have always been for faith that is accompanied by works, that has never changed. That is the whole reason I am on this thread to discuss if the other side discusses, or to show scriptures that does not support ES. I will continue to do so.
BEN.....the truth....you do not know what you are talking about....serious....you are out of your league....do not address me....until you can be HONEST, BIBLICAL, TRUTHFUL......your embellished twisted dogma = no power...
Eternal LIFE <---given as a gift...
TELL us ALL what ETERNAL MEANS......
Eternal LIFE <---given as a gift...
TELL us ALL what ETERNAL MEANS......
-
2
- Show all
I have shown you a scripture that proves that EVERYBODY is not written in the 'book of life'. I believe only those that believe are written in the book.
But as you have pointed out, there has to be more than 1 book. Must be 1 book that is for everyone, that records their works. This is the book that the dead (all the dead) are judged from.
But the only way to get into the book of life is to have the baptism of the spirit. But, you can be blotted off if you continue not in the faith.
But as you have pointed out, there has to be more than 1 book. Must be 1 book that is for everyone, that records their works. This is the book that the dead (all the dead) are judged from.
But the only way to get into the book of life is to have the baptism of the spirit. But, you can be blotted off if you continue not in the faith.
NO, you have always avoided any question about your DENOMINATION. TYPICAL of a Mormon. If you are NOT MORMON, what Denomination are you affiliated with?
No, I told you the truth, the JEWISH word BELIEVE, involves total commitment from the HEART. And the English Word Believe only asks you if you Believe it in your HEAD that the facts about JESUS are TRUE. Our LORD was a JEW, and HE KNEW the DIFFERENCE, and so do I. Like I said, EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT MUCH.
N
more than one book of life is an interesting theory
why would you think God told moses
Exodus 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book
this does not say who ever was baptized of the Holy spirit.....
this was also before the cross.....
What part is out of my league? Is it the part that Peter repented in anguish? Is it the part that Jesus forgave him? Is it the part that Jesus will forgive everyone of their sins? (assumption that everyone who is forgiven believed in him). Which is it. Be more specific than just call me names. That pretty much expresses your biblical IQ.
Hi VCO, If benher is indeed a Mormon, I think everyone here deserves to know the truth, If he is not Mormon then he should be willing to be transparent and truthful and tell everyone here what is his Church denomination. Why the secrecy unless you are trying to hide something? How can anyone even trust the words he speaks, if he is not being truthful.
If you find out which Church denomination benher is affiliated with please let me know.
If you find out which Church denomination benher is affiliated with please let me know.
OSAS, "FAITH ALONE",TITHINGS OF CHRISTIANS, PROSPERITY GOSPEL ARE FALSE MAN-MADE DOCTRINES
Matthew 19 : 16-17
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Romans 6 : 16
16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
THE VERSES ABOVE CLEARLY SHOW THAT OBEDIENCE IS REQUIRED TO GET ETERNAL LIFE.
ACCORDING TO PAUL, OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (Romans 6:16-22)
Matthew 13 : 22
22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
THE RICH MAN WALKED AWAY SAD AFTER RECEIVING INSTRUCTIONS FROM OUR LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM HIS OTHER MASTER WHICH IS HIS WEALTH.
Matthew 6 : 24
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
THE RICH MAN JUST LIKE JUDAS RECEIVED THE WORD (THE SEED) AND BELIEVED (HAD FAITH) IN JESUS BUT THEY WERE DECEIVED BECAUSE OF THEIR LOVE FOR MONEY (WEALTH). THEY WERE LIKE THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE SEED THAT FELL AMONG THE THORNS.
1 Timothy 6 : 9-10
9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
THESE TWO SITUATIONS DO SHOW H
OW THE CHRISTIANS IN THIS AGE OR GENERATION WILL WALK AWAY AND BETRAY OUR LORD JESUS.
Luke 12 : 15
15 Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
Hebrews 13 : 5
5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
1 Corinthians 5 : 11
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
WHO THEN INTRODUCED THE COLLECTION AND GIVING OF TITHES?
AREN'T THEY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO TAUGHT FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINES SUCH AS "OSAS" AND "FAITH ALONE SAVES"?
Matthew 7 : 15-20
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 24 : 10-13
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
GREED IS SELFISHNESS BUT THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS "SELFLESS LOVE".
NO GREEDY PERSON SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
Matthew 19 : 16-17
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Romans 6 : 16
16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
THE VERSES ABOVE CLEARLY SHOW THAT OBEDIENCE IS REQUIRED TO GET ETERNAL LIFE.
ACCORDING TO PAUL, OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (Romans 6:16-22)
Matthew 13 : 22
22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
THE RICH MAN WALKED AWAY SAD AFTER RECEIVING INSTRUCTIONS FROM OUR LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM HIS OTHER MASTER WHICH IS HIS WEALTH.
Matthew 6 : 24
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
THE RICH MAN JUST LIKE JUDAS RECEIVED THE WORD (THE SEED) AND BELIEVED (HAD FAITH) IN JESUS BUT THEY WERE DECEIVED BECAUSE OF THEIR LOVE FOR MONEY (WEALTH). THEY WERE LIKE THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE SEED THAT FELL AMONG THE THORNS.
1 Timothy 6 : 9-10
9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
THESE TWO SITUATIONS DO SHOW H
OW THE CHRISTIANS IN THIS AGE OR GENERATION WILL WALK AWAY AND BETRAY OUR LORD JESUS.
Luke 12 : 15
15 Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
Hebrews 13 : 5
5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
1 Corinthians 5 : 11
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
WHO THEN INTRODUCED THE COLLECTION AND GIVING OF TITHES?
AREN'T THEY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO TAUGHT FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINES SUCH AS "OSAS" AND "FAITH ALONE SAVES"?
Matthew 7 : 15-20
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 24 : 10-13
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
GREED IS SELFISHNESS BUT THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS "SELFLESS LOVE".
NO GREEDY PERSON SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.