Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,189
9,921
113
54
Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
Do you believe that we enter in through the narrow gate through faith in Jesus Christ or through observing the law or both? :unsure:
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,345
113
LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW <-----all you push..........

WE are not under the law, but under GRACE!

Get it through your head...........the righteousness of CHRIST without the LAW has been imputed by faith...WE CANNOT get any more righteous....wake up pal!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

does not obey” is word #544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

Do you believe that we enter in through the narrow gate through faith in Jesus Christ or through observing the law or both? :unsure:
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

DOnt put words in my mouth please and before you MIGHT accuse me think about this: satan FIGHTS AGAINST those who "have faith in Yahshua and guard His COmmands"

I believe the narrow gate is the Messiah and entering it is accepting Him as Savior and Master:, with that said it is not ones followinf of His COmmands/Laws/Words/Instructions that saves them, the following is what His people do...

Psalms 118:19-22, “Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them, I thank Yah. This is the gate of יהוה, The righteous enter through it. I thank You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner-stone.”

John 10:9, “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.”

“door” is word #2374 - thura: a door, Original Word: θύρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: thura, Phonetic Spelling: (thoo'-rah), Short Definition: a door, opportunity, Definition: (a) a door, (b) met: an opportunity.

Mat 7:13-14, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

“gate” is word # 4439 - pulé: a gate, Original Word: πύλη, ης, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: pulé, Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-lay), Short Definition: a door, gate, Definition: a gate.

Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

It is comical to say one has faith in Messiah and reject what He tells us to do and how to live... I could post a ton of saved by believe verses and verses that say those who donlt do His will are not His...

I have a question for you, say a person says "I accept Jesus" but lives the oppisite of what He says to. Has this person really accepted Jesus and will they be saved?

Finally some of His words, wheat and tares sheep and goats:

Matthew 13:24-30, “Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel (tares) among the wheat and went away. And when the blade sprouted and bore fruit, then the darnel (tares) also appeared. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? From where then does it have the darnel (tares)?’ And he said to them, ‘A man, an enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Do you wish then, that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the darnel (tares) you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I shall say to the reapers, “First gather the darnel and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.”


John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,345
113
Do you believe that we enter in through the narrow gate through faith in Jesus Christ or through observing the law or both? :unsure:
We already know the answer to that question....watch him post a wall of text about the law while ignoring the fact that WE ARE UNDER GRACE
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH he has jokes......man.....you push law, end of story...you push that which you break yourself, that which you do not keep and that which proves guilt and points to Christ.....the bolded above is hilarious.....

and I noticed that you did not deny being a Jehovah's Witness

OUR LORD JESUS GAVE INSTRUCTIONS TO PREACH THE GOSPEL UNTO ALL NATIONS.

TO BAPTIZE AND TO TEACH OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. (matthew 28:18-20)

romans 10

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

THOSE WHO DO NOT TEACH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS WERE NOT SENT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL.

1 john 4

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

1 john 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word,love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

revelations 21
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

LIKE ANANIAS AND SAPPHIRA, WHO AFTER ŔECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH, LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

WILL THEY BE CONSIGNED TO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR?

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE

MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)

DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES.

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD?

He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS.


"GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

"LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR"
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW <-----all you push..........

WE are not under the law, but under GRACE!

Get it through your head...........the righteousness of CHRIST without the LAW has been imputed by faith...WE CANNOT get any more righteous....wake up pal!
You really hate the Law huh?

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”



You reject the words of Messiah it sees, you accuse me when I post His words... does your bible start and end at Galatians?

Here Paul says this:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,345
113
You really hate the Law huh?

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”



You reject the words of Messiah it sees, you accuse me when I post His words... does your bible start and end at Galatians?

Here Paul says this:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
Not at all....it done it's job for me and pointed me to the cure..His name is JESUS, it is obvious you have not quite made that connection yet....too busy condemning yourself by placing yourself under that which you cannot even begging to possibly keep....tragically I might add...........!!

AND NO...My bible ends with CHRIST who is the END of the law for righteousness....you should try his IMPUTED righteousness without the deeds of the law by faith.......and quit trying to blend both covenants together........the old has waxed OLD and is inferior....
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Not at all....it done it's job for me and pointed me to the cure..His name is JESUS, it is obvious you have not quite made that connection yet....
Weel actually His name is Yahshua/Yahushua and means YHWH IS SALVATION...

Root word of #H3342 is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) , 1. Yahweh-saved., 2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. , Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

Psalm 68:19, "Blessed be יהוה, Day by day He bears our burden, The Strength of our salvation! Selah."

Ohh and I believe in what He taught not just that He is...

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

too busy condemning yourself by placing yourself under that which you cannot even begging to possibly keep....tragically I might add...........!!
1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

AND NO...My bible ends with CHRIST who is the END of the law for righteousness....
If the Law os "ended" then the Messiah was clueless...

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Your bible may say that I have no doubt, however that is not what the Koine Greek says:

We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os

From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Is it "the end of thLord" here? or does that word mean something different?

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”

James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”

Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…

you should try his IMPUTED righteousness without the deeds of the law by faith.......and quit trying to blend both covenants together........the old has waxed OLD and is inferior....
see this is either you misrepresenting me or misunderstanding me, I don;t seek obedience to His Law to be saved or for making myself to have acceptable righteousness, it is His standard of love and the right way to live...

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,189
9,921
113
54
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”

does not obey” is word #544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.



Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

DOnt put words in my mouth please and before you MIGHT accuse me think about this: satan FIGHTS AGAINST those who "have faith in Yahshua and guard His COmmands"

I believe the narrow gate is the Messiah and entering it is accepting Him as Savior and Master:, with that said it is not ones followinf of His COmmands/Laws/Words/Instructions that saves them, the following is what His people do...

Psalms 118:19-22, “Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them, I thank Yah. This is the gate of יהוה, The righteous enter through it. I thank You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner-stone.”

John 10:9, “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.”

“door” is word #2374 - thura: a door, Original Word: θύρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: thura, Phonetic Spelling: (thoo'-rah), Short Definition: a door, opportunity, Definition: (a) a door, (b) met: an opportunity.

Mat 7:13-14, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

“gate” is word # 4439 - pulé: a gate, Original Word: πύλη, ης, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: pulé, Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-lay), Short Definition: a door, gate, Definition: a gate.

Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

It is comical to say one has faith in Messiah and reject what He tells us to do and how to live... I could post a ton of saved by believe verses and verses that say those who donlt do His will are not His...

I have a question for you, say a person says "I accept Jesus" but lives the oppisite of what He says to. Has this person really accepted Jesus and will they be saved?

Finally some of His words, wheat and tares sheep and goats:

Matthew 13:24-30, “Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel (tares) among the wheat and went away. And when the blade sprouted and bore fruit, then the darnel (tares) also appeared. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? From where then does it have the darnel (tares)?’ And he said to them, ‘A man, an enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Do you wish then, that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the darnel (tares) you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I shall say to the reapers, “First gather the darnel and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.”


John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”
Judging by your long winded answer, along with the verses you quoted, it sounds obvious to me that you are trusting in law keeping/works for salvation and not in Christ alone, even though you continually deny it when specifically asked. You also confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.

In John 3:36, "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life". *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself or in works. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON THE SON".

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, obeying the Son here does not mean salvation by works, but obey by choosing to believe in/on the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to believe in/on the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe in/on the Son.

*John 3:36 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Judging by your long winded answer, along with the verses you quoted, it sounds obvious to me that you are trusting in law keeping/works for salvation and not in Christ alone, even though you continually deny it when specifically asked. You also confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
ok so rather than actually consider what I say in my posts... it;s just long and I didnt answer exactly how you want so im...
"trustung Law!!!"

lol

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

Maybe His Law is in my heart?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Maybe I love YHWH?

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,268
113
ok so rather than actually consider what I say in my posts... it;s just long and I didnt answer exactly how you want so im...
"trustung Law!!!"

lol

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

Maybe His Law is in my heart?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Maybe I love YHWH?

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
Father son and Holy Spirit are one in the same entity..different function..
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Maybe His Law is in my heart?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
and they accuse you... yet YHWH says He will put His Law in your heart... and people say your wrong and "fallen"

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,345
113
Weel actually His name is Yahshua/Yahushua and means YHWH IS SALVATION...

Root word of #H3342 is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) , 1. Yahweh-saved., 2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. , Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

Psalm 68:19, "Blessed be יהוה, Day by day He bears our burden, The Strength of our salvation! Selah."

Ohh and I believe in what He taught not just that He is...

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”



1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”



If the Law os "ended" then the Messiah was clueless...

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Your bible may say that I have no doubt, however that is not what the Koine Greek says:

We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os

From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Is it "the end of thLord" here? or does that word mean something different?

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”

James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”

Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…



see this is either you misrepresenting me or misunderstanding me, I don;t seek obedience to His Law to be saved or for making myself to have acceptable righteousness, it is His standard of love and the right way to live...

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
You can keep your Hebrew roots rigmarole.....Jesus is just fine and your oil and water mix of law and grace = nothing from God pal!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Maybe I love YHWH?

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
Yah says it is loving Him...

and they accuse you...

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
You can keep your Hebrew roots rigmarole.....Jesus is just fine and your oil and water mix of law and grace = nothing from God pal!
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,268
113
Yah says it is loving Him...

and they accuse you...

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”
I'm confused...are your replying to your OWN replys?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
I'm confused...are your replying to your OWN replys?
LOL those 2 yes I did.

I wanted to illustrate the difference between How Yah says He will put His Law in the heart, yet you will get accused if it is in your heart. Also how Yah says guarding His Commands is love to Him yet you will get accused if you say it is right.

Isaiah 5:20, “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,345
113
MY TAKE? OT UNDER LAW..NT..UNDER [email protected]
Exactly.........and he cannot grasp the truth that the LAW and PROPHETS were until JOHN......<---Jesus said this and he flat rejects it to push a law grace mixture.....oil and water do not mix....ALL who attempt to blend both covenants into one are missing the mark by a mile and pushing a man made dogma.....!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,189
9,921
113
54
You can keep your Hebrew roots rigmarole.....Jesus is just fine and your oil and water mix of law and grace = nothing from God pal!
Mixing of law and grace/old covenant with new covenant is the problem. The end result is salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.” :(