Not By Works
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Why the "sour grapes" benhur?, it has become clear to everyone that you do not know the "Sovereign God of the Universe."
The Parable of the Banquet
11) But when the king came in to see the guests, he spotted a man who was not dressed in wedding clothes. 12) ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’
But the man was speechless.
13) Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot and throw him outside into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14) For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Romans9:10-16
10) Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11) Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12) "not by works", but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13) Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14) What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16) It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Matthew22:14
Matthew22:11-14Matthew22:14
The Parable of the Banquet
11) But when the king came in to see the guests, he spotted a man who was not dressed in wedding clothes. 12) ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’
But the man was speechless.
13) Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot and throw him outside into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14) For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Romans9:10-16
10) Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11) Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12) "not by works", but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13) Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14) What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16) It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
I know, it took me years to get this LITTLE knowledge that I have about those Verb Tenses in the Greek. So KEEP studying the WORD in English. I see you making little mistake with the ENGLISH Tenses once in awhile, so keep studying. That is normal for young believers. When my Pastor Explained a Verse, and a why that Verb, meant something different, than I thought it meant. My ears perked up, and I wrote it in the back part of my Bible on those BLANK PAGES. When it was FULL, I got a new Bible.
Let me give you a head Start. JOHN, absolutely LOVED the Greek Present Tense verbs. Most of his writings the VERB is FREQUENTLY in the GREEK Present Tense, especially in 1 John. The way I remember how it is used, is it is the Tense that IMPLIES a CONTINUOUS ACTION of Doing that VERB. In 1 John 2:4 in English, it sounds like if You are not PERFECT at KEEPING IT, you are a Liar about KNOWING HIM. WRONG! In the GREEK Present Tense you find out it's TRUE MEANING. If you don't KEEP on Striving to KEEP HIS Commandments, then you are a LIAR about KNOWING HIM. SO YES, when we stumble into Sin, We get right back up, CONFESS IT TO THE LORD, and CONTINUE to KEEP on STRIVING to KEEP HIS Commandments, OUT OF PURE LOVE FOR HIM. It will get Easier as we continually feed our Human Spirit on the WORD OF GOD.
Therefore, like I said, as you Mature in the spirit, You will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS. But We will not be PERFECT at KEEPING HIS commandments, UNTIL we get that Sinless, Glorified Body at the Resurrection.
Philippians 1:6 (NLT2)
6 And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
Salvation happens to your human spirit, the day you first genuinely BELIEVED.
Sanctification, is a Process where your body, becomes MORE and MORE like CHRIST your whole life.
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Let me give you a tip on how to find the Greek Tense of the Verb in the WORD.
HOWEVER THIS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE, FOR ATTENTIVELY LISTENING TO YOUR PASTOR,
OR ASKING AN OLDER BROTHER IN CHRIST, FOR HIS INPUT ON WHAT A VERSE MEANS BY WHAT IT SAYS.
JUST BE SURE IT IS REALLY AN OLDER BROTHER, AND NOT ONE WHO HAS DIFFERENT DOCTRINES.
How to find Verb Tenses in the BLUE LETTER BIBLE.
If this is too complicated for you, save it for later.
Click on this link in a separate TAB.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/14/15/t_conc_1011015
Now come back for more instructions.
See that Text Box up top, dead center just below DEVOTIONALS, that is where you TYPE the verse you want to find.
See the word TOOLS left of each Bible Verse, TOP and BOTTOM, of the Open Verse window, click there to open a new verse.
It is already on John 14:15, so we will use that as an example, so look in the Open Verse window.
See the word PARSE in a box clear over to the right of the Bible verses, those are VERBS.
Sometimes in English a Verb translates to a Phase. Click on the word PARSE, just to the right side of the phrase ye love.
Now you see the little popup window with the TENSE of the Greek Word for ye love and it is Present Tense.
Now with that little popup open, Double Click on the word Present and another little popup window opens below.
That will give you the DEFINITION of the Greek Present Tense, sometimes rendered as PAST TENSE in English.
Here is the Bottom Half of the definition, that will give you an Idea how I came to nick name it Continuous Action Verb, so I could remember it:
Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.
In other words, it happened in the past, but is continues to be a LIFESTYLE on into the future.
The Next Verb is that Aorist Tense verb you were talking about, see if you can figure it out.
That gives a new meaning to the expression, "THAT'S GREEK TO ME".
They are not even sure if it can be defined in English. Here is my thought, and I am not a Greek Scholar, but I know how to use these tools. Because of the following statement, it is another Continuous Action Verb:
the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.
I other words it is another example of that which we DO AS A LIFESTYLE.
I hope this will be of help for you.
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38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Yes Decon, I do really believe what you judge as drivel.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Yes Decon, I do really believe what you judge as drivel.
And yet the Man who allowed Himself to be tortured and killed to absolve us of our lawlessness said;
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It is truly "Unbelievable" as "many" on this forum have proven. Just for the record, I believe EVERY WORD of the Christ. Why wouldn't I if I love Him?
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It is truly "Unbelievable" as "many" on this forum have proven. Just for the record, I believe EVERY WORD of the Christ. Why wouldn't I if I love Him?
Do you honestly believe that we can become worthy of his saving grace.
If so then are you saying our works make us worthy?
Think about it, you have said "Works do not save us"
So if there is something that makes us worthy then it has to be our works.
Is that correct?
Or is it that God makes us worthy as a result of his saving grace?
Grace is unmerited favour.
Grace has nothing to do with the beloved but by the lover.
Grace is about love.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.
That's grace in action.
For the world.
Then whoever believes in him will be saved.
We are made worthy based on what Jesus has done.
That is what makes us worthy.
Faith in Jesus.
Romans 4:22-25
22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
As a result we are called to
1 Thessalonians 2:12
12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
Colossians 1:10
10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Ephesians 4:1-3
Walk in Unity
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
We have been made worthy based on what Jesus has done and not what we do.
It's as a result of his unmerited favour.
The lover of our souls who have gave everything for us.
We do that to others God has given us to walk with.
We will never ever be worthy of his grace.
But we sure can be thankful of his grace that sets us free to be like him, not to be saved but because we are saved.
If so then are you saying our works make us worthy?
Think about it, you have said "Works do not save us"
So if there is something that makes us worthy then it has to be our works.
Is that correct?
Or is it that God makes us worthy as a result of his saving grace?
Grace is unmerited favour.
Grace has nothing to do with the beloved but by the lover.
Grace is about love.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.
That's grace in action.
For the world.
Then whoever believes in him will be saved.
We are made worthy based on what Jesus has done.
That is what makes us worthy.
Faith in Jesus.
Romans 4:22-25
22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
As a result we are called to
1 Thessalonians 2:12
12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.
Colossians 1:10
10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Ephesians 4:1-3
Walk in Unity
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
We have been made worthy based on what Jesus has done and not what we do.
It's as a result of his unmerited favour.
The lover of our souls who have gave everything for us.
We do that to others God has given us to walk with.
We will never ever be worthy of his grace.
But we sure can be thankful of his grace that sets us free to be like him, not to be saved but because we are saved.
Yeh as we say over here.
"There is no such thing as a free lunch"
But
Isaiah 55:1-3
An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
"There is no such thing as a free lunch"
But
Isaiah 55:1-3
An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
You need to back up the claim you make.
You yourself has said that works do not save.
The intent and purpose of this thread.
So back up your claim and quote people who say that works do not follow through as result of genuine faith.
Can you do that?
Please do not quote verses that Jesus said.
Quote quotes that people on this thread have said we do not need to good works.
It's interesting you say "Why wouldn't if I did not love him?
That's exactly the point VCO presses in on, but you reject everything he says.
Open to correction here, if I'm wrong then please post a response where you agree with him in terms of we do works out of love
You yourself has said that works do not save.
The intent and purpose of this thread.
So back up your claim and quote people who say that works do not follow through as result of genuine faith.
Can you do that?
Please do not quote verses that Jesus said.
Quote quotes that people on this thread have said we do not need to good works.
It's interesting you say "Why wouldn't if I did not love him?
That's exactly the point VCO presses in on, but you reject everything he says.
Open to correction here, if I'm wrong then please post a response where you agree with him in terms of we do works out of love
ben , its our spirit , our inner being thats been born again , but we still live in our sinful flesh , thats why the scriptures say that one born of God cannott sin , because God looks at our spirit , and if we have been born again , he sees Jesus's righteousness , its not ours . Our flesh is weak , and all believers will sin , as much as some dont want to admit that , its the truth
Not one sin can enter Gods heaven , thats why he says " Be ye perfect , as I am perfect "
Can we ever live perfectly in this life , no we cant , we need Jesus's righteousness
Not one sin can enter Gods heaven , thats why he says " Be ye perfect , as I am perfect "
Can we ever live perfectly in this life , no we cant , we need Jesus's righteousness
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common ground
- heaven exist
- salvation is important
- humans are capable of "good works"
- the Bible is true <-- agreeing with this one is very important
Scriptures and explanation
Apostle Paul's Lament
Romans 7:24 - What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death
if we put the two together for Romans 3:23 and Romans 6:23
both are trying to say "all deserve death"
hence, what Apostle Paul is talking about "subject to death"
the most common object is, "I performed a church ritual, I do church, I live and breathe church, ur in ch__ch, I should be fine"
but here are two verses, that I highly doubt that you can wrestle against with much success.
1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Cor 10:12 - So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
and I believe 1 Cor 12:10 is a critical verse for this one, to obey it, we must never think that we are standing firm (sin is still possible), hence, refuting "sinless perfectionism"
Romans 12:3 - be sober-minded
incase if we think that works can fix that problem
consider Isaiah 64:6
Isaiah 64:6 - all our righteous acts are like filthy rags
for trying to work for salvation, this is not looking good
the answer why, is found in 1 Cor 13:3
1 Cor 13:3 - If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
incase if you want to say, "our heart is holy", consider Jeremiah 17:9
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I believe that this scripture-based proof is air-tight, straightforward direct proof, unless if you willfully misinterpret them (I hope not)
If for a moment, you allow yourself to assume that this proof is airtight, you'll realize the truth of Matt 19:26
Matt 19:26 - With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
with man, it's impossible for works to achieve salvation,
with God, all things, (including your salvation) is possible
in conclusion, Not by Works, but faith in God's grace
Q.E.D. (in theory, I can rest my case, hopefully the theory that "I can rest my case" can be true)
- heaven exist
- salvation is important
- humans are capable of "good works"
- the Bible is true <-- agreeing with this one is very important
Scriptures and explanation
Apostle Paul's Lament
Romans 7:24 - What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death
if we put the two together for Romans 3:23 and Romans 6:23
both are trying to say "all deserve death"
hence, what Apostle Paul is talking about "subject to death"
the most common object is, "I performed a church ritual, I do church, I live and breathe church, ur in ch__ch, I should be fine"
but here are two verses, that I highly doubt that you can wrestle against with much success.
1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Cor 10:12 - So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
and I believe 1 Cor 12:10 is a critical verse for this one, to obey it, we must never think that we are standing firm (sin is still possible), hence, refuting "sinless perfectionism"
Romans 12:3 - be sober-minded
incase if we think that works can fix that problem
consider Isaiah 64:6
Isaiah 64:6 - all our righteous acts are like filthy rags
for trying to work for salvation, this is not looking good
the answer why, is found in 1 Cor 13:3
1 Cor 13:3 - If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
incase if you want to say, "our heart is holy", consider Jeremiah 17:9
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I believe that this scripture-based proof is air-tight, straightforward direct proof, unless if you willfully misinterpret them (I hope not)
If for a moment, you allow yourself to assume that this proof is airtight, you'll realize the truth of Matt 19:26
Matt 19:26 - With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
with man, it's impossible for works to achieve salvation,
with God, all things, (including your salvation) is possible
in conclusion, Not by Works, but faith in God's grace
Q.E.D. (in theory, I can rest my case, hopefully the theory that "I can rest my case" can be true)
You hit the nail on the head:
Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Most OSAS people stop at Christ Jesus, and do not include, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Most OSAS people just say "there is therefore now no comdemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."
How bout those who are in Christ Jesus that eventually start not walking in the Spirit, but after the flesh? Do they lose their saved position. The answer is yes, according to John 15:2, and many other scriptures. Read the parable of the forgiving king.
Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Most OSAS people stop at Christ Jesus, and do not include, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Most OSAS people just say "there is therefore now no comdemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."
How bout those who are in Christ Jesus that eventually start not walking in the Spirit, but after the flesh? Do they lose their saved position. The answer is yes, according to John 15:2, and many other scriptures. Read the parable of the forgiving king.
Wrong again....the bolded is false and your accusation above is false......maybe study more and see that the latter part of verse 1 in chapter 8 has been embellished and is not in the original text....and then read John 3:36
It is ONLY the King JAMES that ADDS the second half of verse 1 and Episcopalians BELIEVE is a working for dogma
New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Study Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus,
Contemporary English Version
If you belong to Christ Jesus, you won't be punished.
Good News Translation
There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,
International Standard Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in union with the Messiah Jesus.
NET Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
It is ONLY the King JAMES that ADDS the second half of verse 1 and Episcopalians BELIEVE is a working for dogma
New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Study Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus,
Contemporary English Version
If you belong to Christ Jesus, you won't be punished.
Good News Translation
There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,
International Standard Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in union with the Messiah Jesus.
NET Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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