Not By Works

[VCO]

So if you are not called, are you automatically damned to hell for all eternity?

IF you do not Recognize CHRIST IS YOUR CREATOR AND SUPPRESS THE TRUTH ABOUT CHRIST IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS,

you will automatically damned to Hades followed the Lake of Fire for all eternity?

That is what the HOLY SPIRIT IS TRYING TO GET YOU TO BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, and when you reject that, you will get your wish, of NOT HAVING THE CREATOR AS PART OF YOUR LIFE, for Eternity. THAT IS WHY IT SAYS Rom. 1:20 (NKJV):

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Hades is a Place of TORMENT and FIRE for the Disembodied, Dead Human Spirits. Spiritual Death is NOT LIKE physical death. YOU WILL FEEL EVERY MINUTE OF THAT FIRE AND TORMENT. A Dead Human Spirit does not mean you do not feel anything. You HAVE NO LOVE FOR GOD, YOU HAVE ONLY LOVE FOR SELF, and YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF GOD. You GET YOUR WISH FOR ETERNITY.
THAT IS SPIRITUAL DEATH.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

See it, that Wailing and Gnashing of teeth, that IS A HEBREW expression for BITTERNESS TOWARDS GOD.

Yes, I believe that is LITERAL, and YES I BELIEVE THE Story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is LITERALLY a Biographical Story,
Luke 16:19-31. Evidence are these events:

1. Jesus NEVER Named a Character in ANY OF HIS PARABLES.
2. Everyone seemed to KNOW who Lazarus was and no one questioned Him about it.
3. There would have BEEN NO NEED TO ACCURATELY NUMBER THE Rich Mans Brothers, unless it was a BIOGRAPHICAL STORY.
4. Why did Jesus Not mention the Rich Man's Name? Probably because one or more of the Rich Man's Brothers were in the audience that day that Jesus told the Story.
5. The Mideast Custom of walking in Someone's Bosom would NOT have been necessary in a Parable, also it used to be called BOSOM BUDDIES: all are indications that it is a REAL BIOGRAPHICAL STORY .

NOTICE the Women behind them (probably their wives)
also walking arm and arm. THAT IS THE MIDEAST CUSTOM
of Walking in one another's Bosom.

So after Lazarus was dead, was walking arm in arm with Abraham, in Paradise.

 

[1ofthem]

I guess you would rather hear false gospels, cainology and give the dog a bone blather........if you can examine his words and find truth to the phrase "someone who deserves saving grace" you are worse off than it appears.......wow

Excuse me if I only take your judgement of me with a grain of salt. And no, I definetly don't want to hear a false Gospel, cainology, give the dog a bone, patty cake, or none of that nonsense.

And no, I don't think anyone is worthy of saving grace. None of us are worthy, but the words of Jesus still stand. Once you are saved you will take up your cross and follow him, if you don't and don't want to then you were probably never even saved to begin with and that's just the honest biblical truth about it. If God draws you and gives you a chance at salvation and you turn him down then no you are not worthy of being his disciple.

And I didn't see any where he said that works save you...but that if you are born again then you will have works. Once again that is the truth according to the Bible.

So yeah, I don't want any part of the patty cake, give the dog a bone, watered down version....

So let the stones fly folks.

 

[Studyman]

="BillG, post: 3734826, member: 252071"]Do you honestly believe that we can become worthy of his saving grace.
If so then are you saying our works make us worthy?

I posted the direct Word's of the Christ of the Bible. It was His Word's. So if you don't "believe" in Him, you need to take that up with Him, not with me.

Think about it, you have said "Works do not save us"
So if there is something that makes us worthy then it has to be our works.
Is that correct?

I'm not sure if you are just Mocking God or not, so just in case you are not.

God became a human to pay my death penalty. Do you understand this? It was God who created me, it was God who created His Salvation plan, it was God who allowed mainstream religions to mock Him, lie about Him, torture Him and ultimately try to silenced Him. It was the Word of God who became Flesh and shed His Blood for me long before I was even born. Are you with me here Billy? I created nothing. I didn't shed my blood for anyone. It was His Works, His program. I, or any work that I can do, did nothing to even influence Him and His Works. Are you still with me?

So when you asked your question "Do our work's save us" I answered correctly and said no. I did nothing to create this saving Grace. My life is a vapor, here today, gone tomorrow. I have done, nor can do anything to influence HIS Salvation plan. He prepared His Mercy before I was even born.

It is all Him, His Program, His Blood, His Sacrifice. Are you still with me here?

But God doesn't give His Saving Grace to everyone. Not because I say so, but because He says so.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

This is a Biblical fact. Have you been taught this truth? So who doesn't get God's Saving Grace? Those who "Do not" "DO" the Will of God, YES?

Does God judge by skin color? By race? By DNA? Are we born condemned without hope in this world, or born saved regardless of our choices?

Well, "many" seem to believe that.

But He says over and over in His Word that we are are judged, not by our race, but by our Works. What We "DO". And those who strive to "do" HIS WILL, are the ones He gives His Mercy to. Just like the Word of God, which became Flesh teaches.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that (DO) love me, and (DO) keep my commandments.

Not our works, but His Works. Not our creation, but His Creation. Not our word's by His Words. Are you understanding what I am saying here?

I have chosen to believe what the Christ, the creator of His Salvation plan, the creator of His Grace and mercy, says who receives it. As did Abraham. And his trust and belief in the creator of Mercy is God's Definition of "Faith".

And those were the scriptures that I posted that you did ignore.

So do my "works" save me? No, the Blood of Christ saves me. God's Word which became Flesh saves me. But as His Word that I posted for you clearly says, I have a part in the process. I am told to "DO" Something in order to "Receive" this Mercy that I did not create. I am to "deny myself", and follow the instructions of the creator of Grace.

So if His grace is a life jacket, and I am drowning, I need to "GRAB IT" to live.

Am I then saved by my works? Or am I saved through trust in His life saving Grace, by believing in Him, or "FAITH" enough to grab it?

We are saved by Grace "Through Faith". If you don't believe what He teaches, then there is no Faith. If you create your own image of God in the likenmess of man, there is no Faith. If you reject His instructions and create your own, there is no Faith. If you don't believe HIS definition of "Good", "Faith" "Holy" then you have no Faith.

Without Faith, there is no "doing His Will". Without "doing His Will" there is no Mercy.

At least this is what the scriptures teach.

 

[VCO]

Wow, so you are saying the KJV of the bible is teaching false doctrine. That is interesting, that you feel like God-breathed writings have been fudged so much as to now teach false doctrine.

Could it be the other way around. That all the rest of the versions were mad that the KJV had to wreck their OSAS amd so they decided not to include it. Where are the originals that the KJV used to make up their version of the bible? Where are the originals for all the other versions you used?

You know when you go this route to support your position, you are treading on thin ice?

Since YOU DO NOT KNOW, here is what I think of the KJV. IT IS INFINITELY BETTER the NWT, almost a Day and Night difference.

However, IT IS A PARAPHRASE from the Older English Translations to the Way that English was Spoken at the time of King James.

How do I know, the Translators admitted in the Original 1611 Preface. As such it is the below any actual TRANSLATION from the

Original Languages Manuscripts, but still one of the better Paraphrases.



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Now compare to the NWT, which is a PERVERSION of the Scriptures, because their so-called translation team where UNQUALIFIED, in that the one with the MOST education in GREEK, only had two years of Conversational Greek, not even two years of New Testament Greek. On top of that, they CHOSE TO Lift their Foot Notes in their First Edition into the THE ACTUAL TEXT ITSELF WITH OUT ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE ACTUAL TEXT AND THEIR FOOT NOT COMMENTS, falsifying and disguising it as ALL GOD's WORDS.

How do I know?

Their Translation Team actually admitted what they did in the Second Edition Forward. When we True CHRISTIAN'S Noticed it, we were Prepared to Jump them about Lifting their Footnotes into the TEXT ITSELF.

Proverbs 30:6 (NKJV)
6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

The Watchtower Society promptly published the THIRD EDITION, and a complete NEW FORWARD, with NO MENTION EVER AGAIN about lifting into the TEXT, their Footnotes. ALMOST NO MODERN DAY JEHOVAH WITNESS EVEN KNOWS what their Translation admitted in the Second Edition. THAT FALSIFIED their VERSION, because their uplifted Footnotes REMAINED, MAKING IT FOREVER A PERVERSION of GOD'S WORD. Their Footnote changed John 1:1 FROM:

John 1:1 (HCSB)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


To This False Teaching: "1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."


OH MY!

But I found a copy of the Second Edition of the NWT, in a used book store, and NOW YOU CAN READ IT FOR YOURSELF.


I would ask them, "Do you believe that anyone who adds their own words to the Word of God is a False Prophet?" If they say "Yes", then ask them to read the FOREWORD of the Second Edition of the New World Translation copyright 1961:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FOREWORD​

IT IS a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into modern speech. Translating the Holy Scriptures means a rendering into another language the thoughts and sayings of the heavenly Author of this sacred library of sixty-six books, Jehovah God, which holy men of long ago put down in writing under inspiration for our benefit today.

That is a sobering thought. The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers of the modern translation who depend upon the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.

It was with such a sense of solemn responsibility that the committee of dedicated men have produced the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, over the course of many years. As soon as each part of the translation became available for publication it was turned over to the publishers for printing, all together in six volumes. The New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, containing the twenty-seven books from Matthew through The Revelation, first appeared in 1950. In due order the volumes of the New World Translation of the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures appeared, the first volume in 1953, the second in 1955, the third in 1957, the fourth in 1958, and the fifth in 1960.

From the start of the work it was the desire of the translators to have all these contemplated volumes brought together in the form of one book, inasmuch as the Holy Scriptures are in fact one book by the One Author. To this end, as soon as the final volume of the series had been issued in 1960, the committee set to work to prepare the entire translation for publication under one cover. The committee was then able to take under survey the translation as a whole and to discern where improvements could be made.

An effort was put forth to bring about even greater consistency in the renderings of the related parts of the Holy Scriptures, such as in harmonizing with the original Hebrew readings of the reading of quotations made in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Since the one-volume edition of the Holy Scriptures was to contain no footnotes, many footnote readings that had appeared in the earlier translation in six distinct volumes were lifted and put into the main text of the one-volume edition. This does not mean that the earlier rendering that was now replaced was rejected. Rather, the purpose was to attain to closer conformity to the literal reading in the original languages. All this process has resulted in revisions in the main text of the translation.

The now completed one-volume edition may therefore be properly called a revised edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. In releasing it for publication we do so with a deep sense of gratitude to the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, who has thus privileged us and in whose spirit we have trusted to co-operate with us in this worthy work. We hope for His blessing upon the published translation in behalf of all who read and use it in learning his holy will.

New World Bible Translation Committee​

January 17, 1961, New York, N.Y.​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OH MY!




Proverbs 30:6 (NKJV)
6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.


The Watchtower Society is a PROVEN FALSE PROPHET.

 

[TruthTalk]

Wow, so you are saying the KJV of the bible is teaching false doctrine. That is interesting, that you feel like God-breathed writings have been fudged so much as to now, teach false doctrine.

An error in translation does not translate into "teaching false doctrine."

You know when you go this route to support your position, "you are treading on thin ice?"

benhur I would not criticize VCO like that;
"you are walking north on an ice sheet that is floating very quickly south."

 

[theanointedsinner]

benhur I would not criticize VCO like that -- "you are walking north on an ice sheet that is floating very quickly south."

benhur should trust my experience on this part, nothing good can come out of it. (I regretted it)

thankfully, VCO is my brother

 

[VCO]

How many on the forum believe our spirits are not alive at our natual birth?

Hey, let's do it the other way around, maybe only three or four that I know of thinks the HUMAN SPIRITS are ALIVE at natural birth.

EVERYONE ELSE understands BORN AGAIN, and that human spirit must be BORN AGAIN of the HOLY SPIRIT as HE comes into your HEART.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Here is JESUS calling the human Brain a SOUL, so this man was UNSAVED, so we know that part of man is alive an Natural Birth.

Luke 12:19-20 (NASB)
19 'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'
20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

So that PART OF MAN is alive at Natural Birth, and obviously the Body is too.

SO WHAT PART OF MAN do you think was ONCE DEAD AT NATURAL BIRTH, THAT MUST BE BORN OF the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 2:1-2 (HCSB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins
2 in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Romans 8:6 (NKJV)
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Proverbs 8:36 (HCSB)
36 but the one who misses me harms himself; all who hate me love death.”

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.


Now we have determined that the Body and Soul are alive at Natural Birth, so what part do you think Remains in Death.

 

[VCO]

But never on a Sabbath. That would be work. According to you, you cannot even play on the Sabbath

GOOD ONE! Now you got him running Scared of the Sabbath, lol.

 

[theanointedsinner]

GOOD ONE! Now you got him running Scared of the Sabbath, lol.

unfortunately, being inconsistent is another possible option, which is hypocrisy (which is like a double edge sword)

 

[Lafftur]

unfortunately, being inconsistent is another possible option, which is hypocrisy

Well, that’s just hypothetical thinking.... lol!

 

[theanointedsinner]

Well, that’s just hypothetical thinking.... lol!

oh, and Jesus never rebuked hypocrites, ever *insert sarcasm here*


where is that insert sarcasm here sign?

 

[Lafftur]

Well, that’s just hypothetical thinking.... lol!

Just a bunch of thinking with no solutions. 🙃

 

[theanointedsinner]

Just a bunch of thinking with no solutions. 🙃

the solution is simple: just open the door! (Rev 3:20)

 

[theanointedsinner]

This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. (John 15:8)

may we continue to read carefully

 

[Lafftur]

How many on the forum believe our spirits are not alive at our natual birth?

Well, I’ll jump out there and answer this one, but keep in mind - I’ve got my shield of faith up and I really don’t care if anyone agrees or disagrees! Lol!

At birth in the natural realm on earth, my spirit is not dead or alive - it is dormant, waiting for the Breath of God (Holy Spirit)to activate it - awaken it.

My Soul (mind, will, emotions) is lost/unstable and needs to be restored/rooted and grounded in Christ which is done through fellowship with the Holy Spirit and the Word.

My Body, just like a child, cries out for what it wants and throws a fit if it doesn’t get it! Lol! It has to learn to submit - learn all the behavior virtues.

God’s plan is that all 3 live and dwell in harmony with each other and with God.

So, it’s the Father’s plan and Will so, He’ll get it done! I’m in agreement with Him, let’s get it done! Amen. 😍👍

 

[theanointedsinner]

Hey, let's do it the other way around, maybe only three or four that I know of thinks the HUMAN SPIRITS are ALIVE at natural birth.

EVERYONE ELSE understands BORN AGAIN, and that human spirit must be BORN AGAIN of the HOLY SPIRIT as HE comes into your HEART.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Here is JESUS calling the human Brain a SOUL, so this man was UNSAVED, so we know that part of man is alive an Natural Birth.

Luke 12:19-20 (NASB)
19 'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'
20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

So that PART OF MAN is alive at Natural Birth, and obviously the Body is too.

SO WHAT PART OF MAN do you think was ONCE DEAD AT NATURAL BIRTH, THAT MUST BE BORN OF the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 2:1-2 (HCSB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins
2 in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Romans 8:6 (NKJV)
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Proverbs 8:36 (HCSB)
36 but the one who misses me harms himself; all who hate me love death.”

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.


Now we have determined that the Body and Soul are alive at Natural Birth, so what part do you think Remains in Death.

say the "spirit" is like a dry erase board, before you are saved, the dry erase board is filled with black ink and it needs to be erased. The moment of faith in God's grace is when he wipe the slate clean for you.

that's the illustration

 

[Lafftur]

the solution is simple: just open the door! (Rev 3:20)

Yes, Jesus - You are the solution and the door is always open. Do come in Lord, and fix this mess!! Hallelujah! Thank You Jesus!!! 😃

 

[Lafftur]

say the "spirit" is like a dry erase board, before you are saved, the dry erase board is filled with black ink and it needs to be erased. The moment of faith in God's grace is when he wipe the slate clean for you.

that's the illustration

No, that would be The Blood of Jesus that wipes it clean - not the Spirit.

 

[theanointedsinner]

No, that would be The Blood of Jesus that wipes it clean - not the Spirit.

in that case, spiritually dead = not having the Spirit

 

[Lafftur]

in that case, spiritually dead = not having the Spirit

Post #74,235😃👍