Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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The blood of Jesus saves us but our works must follow into eternal life. So, a saved person WILL have works Jesus said. Otherwise, they're not saved. Paul reminds us to always be ready for every good work.
Exactly how would you define the following found within believers

a. Works of WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE yet saved so as by fire
b. Cut lose for the destruction of the flesh that the SPIRIT may be saved
c. God chastening SONS whom he receives <---WHY?
d. NON sons without chastening

WHAT you all fail to acknowledge is the act of FAITH is DOING the WORK of the HEAVENLY FATHER and BY DEFAULT a BELIEVER before they BEAR one piece of fruit already has the bolded in this statement.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,162
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Wow this just boggles the mind. How vain can any one man be, you have never been where "Mailmandan has been", ever. How ungrateful and blind can you be when Mailmandan has presented the "True Gospel", and you discard it like an old pair of tennis shoes. Shame on you and whatever God has in store for you because of leading people astray with your "Junk theology", I pity you on judgement day.
I hear ya.....you know....I have tried to believe everyone is worth the time and effort......but in this case.........!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,162
17,517
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Can people please expand their thoughts on the following

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So does it apply to works or to what we teach?
Every post on here containing verses and an explanation is teaching.

So what is it?

If we teach crap yet as a result we are saved does it seem fair that those who walk the Christian life in that way would not be saved.

Bill, my brother form another mother.....They (the worker for, Cainologists, and Pharisees) CANNOT comprehend that BELIEVERS will have both good and bad works, some are super duper faithful, some are saved and worldly, some bear a great abundance of fruit, some will have ONE (1) piece of fruit, some will have all 5 crowns to be won, some NONE, some will have works of gold, silver and precious stones, some wood, hay and stubble......YET ALL will be saved and enter the kingdom with eternal life based upon their initial act of faith.....THE BIBLE IS REPLETE with this truth and yet the bolded above CANNOT grasp this truth because of a lack of biblical sight and or understanding.......
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Can people please expand their thoughts on the following

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So does it apply to works or to what we teach?
Every post on here containing verses and an explanation is teaching.

So what is it?

If we teach crap yet as a result we are saved does it seem fair that those who walk the Christian life in that way would not be saved.
Hi brother bill, not sure where you are going with this, does not verse (14, 15), explain the answer you are looking for; I believe the "work" that is being referred to is "ministry", if you have wrong motives I reckon you will suffer loss. I may be misinterpreting the meaning of this verse and I suppose someone else could confirm if this is right or wrong.

Great verse, I think, "we are God's fellow workers", is a key phrase......but Jesus Christ is the foundation upon which everyone is working on so we need to have the right motive and not for selfish gain.

14) If "anyone’s work" which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15) If "anyone’s work" is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9)
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10) According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11) For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid,
which is Jesus Christ. 12) Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13) each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14) If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15) If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Go for it mate.

You can do it:cool:

Even though you and I do not agree on various things.
Even at times you do my head in, and I'm sure I do your head in.
I do have to say that I do not consider you as a rude person.
Thanks BillG, you are a good Christian.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,391
3,287
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Hi brother bill, not sure where you are going with this, does not verse (14, 15), explain the answer you are looking for; I believe the "work" that is being referred to is "ministry", if you have wrong motives I reckon you will suffer loss. I may be misinterpreting the meaning of this verse and I suppose someone else could confirm if this is right or wrong.

Great verse, I think, "we are God's fellow workers", is a key phrase......but Jesus Christ is the foundation upon which everyone is working on so we need to have the right motive and not for selfish gain.

14) If "anyone’s work" which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15) If "anyone’s work" is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9)
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10) According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11) For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12) Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13) each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14) If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15) If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Hi brother.

Thanks for responding and that is what I'm trying to solicit.
So does it have to do with what we teach or our works?
Jesus will judge our works, aka the sheep.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Paul had the same struggle as evidenced by his words.....most overlook or sweep under the table the following truth....the more time one spends with Jesus the more wicked we see ourselves in light of his righteousness....Paul testifies to this by what he said in the following...note....the first part was in the beginning of his ministry and the last toward the end of his ministry...

a. Least of the Apostles
b. Least of the Saints
c. Chief number 1 sinner among men

He also said.....

The things i say I am going to do I do not do and the things I say I am not going to do, those things I do...and then calls himself a wretched man...ALL IN PRESENT TENSE

That is why, in my view, any and all who lift self and believe they have some grand part in gaining or keeping salvation ultimately are devaluing the ministry, work, power, and promises of Christ....
If we have a part in our salvation, why do you feel that we devalue the ministry, work, power and promises of Christ?
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
300
433
63
Bill, my brother form another mother.....They (the worker for, Cainologists, and Pharisees) CANNOT comprehend that BELIEVERS will have both good and bad works, some are super duper faithful, some are saved and worldly, some bear a great abundance of fruit, some will have ONE (1) piece of fruit, some will have all 5 crowns to be won, some NONE, some will have works of gold, silver and precious stones, some wood, hay and stubble......YET ALL will be saved and enter the kingdom with eternal life based upon their initial act of faith.....THE BIBLE IS REPLETE with this truth and yet the bolded above CANNOT grasp this truth because of a lack of biblical sight and or understanding.......
Amen dcon , they dont get it because they point at others too often , and cant imagine someone is saved by Faith alone , and they themselves are doing all this " STUFF " saying we must obey or were not saved , we must have good works or were not really saved etc etc etc . I dont think they know a thing about the age of Grace or about Gods grace at all
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,391
3,287
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Thanks BillG, you are a good Christian.
Not really mate.
I just love Jesus and want to be like him.
I would never want to lay a heavy burden on a believer.
Neither did Jesus want to.
He said "Give me your burden, I'll swap a heavy one for a light one"

No brainer really.

That's what we should aspire to walk in.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
Can people please expand their thoughts on the following

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So does it apply to works or to what we teach?
Every post on here containing verses and an explanation is teaching.

So what is it?

If we teach crap yet as a result we are saved does it seem fair that those who walk the Christian life in that way would not be saved.

I don't believe a personal understanding of these scriptures erases the entire Bible, or make void any of the Word's of the Bible. So to take it by itself without injecting other truths would be unwise.

There is a religion, which uses parts of God's word to deceive, whose leaders disguise themselves as "Ministers of Righteousness". They act as if they are "Fellow Workers" with Paul, but they are not.

2 Cor. 11:
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

So your question doesn't consider this revelation and many others contained in other parts of the Bible. If someone coming in Christ's name teaches a lie, like "The Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Commandments". Are they building on the Foundation of Christ? Or building on man's religious tradition?

I would say they are not "workers together" with Paul at all.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Does the Spirit of God dwell in EVERYONE? And if not, who get's it according to the Bible.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

If a meaning of a scripture changes when we add "ALL" of God's Words, is the first meaning correct, or the latter?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Hi brother.

Thanks for responding and that is what I'm trying to solicit.
So does it have to do with what we teach or our works?
Jesus will judge our works, aka the sheep.
Yep our works will be judged and teachers of the bible will receive a much more strict judgement.

James3:1
"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,162
17,517
113
If we have a part in our salvation, why do you feel that we devalue the ministry, work, power and promises of Christ?
My quote had ZERO to do with PAUL having a part in his salvation......but rather the struggle, insight and UNDERSTANDING of the truth BASED upon being saved and in light of the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST......HOW can you possibly GET that I indicated that PAUL had ANYTHING to do with his salvation other than BELIEVING in CHRIST.....MY comment is AIMED at those who THINK they HELP KEEP THEMSELVES saved and or in part EARN their salvation through their works!!

dcontroversal said:
Paul had the same struggle as evidenced by his words.....most overlook or sweep under the table the following truth....the more time one spends with Jesus the more wicked we see ourselves in light of his righteousness....Paul testifies to this by what he said in the following...note....the first part was in the beginning of his ministry and the last toward the end of his ministry...

a. Least of the Apostles
b. Least of the Saints
c. Chief number 1 sinner among men

He also said.....

The things i say I am going to do I do not do and the things I say I am not going to do, those things I do...and then calls himself a wretched man...ALL IN PRESENT TENSE

That is why, in my view, any and all who lift self and believe they have some grand part in gaining or keeping salvation ultimately are devaluing the ministry, work, power, and promises of Christ....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,391
3,287
113
I don't believe a personal understanding of these scriptures erases the entire Bible, or make void any of the Word's of the Bible. So to take it by itself without injecting other truths would be unwise.

There is a religion, which uses parts of God's word to deceive, whose leaders disguise themselves as "Ministers of Righteousness". They act as if they are "Fellow Workers" with Paul, but they are not.

2 Cor. 11:
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

So your question doesn't consider this revelation and many others contained in other parts of the Bible. If someone coming in Christ's name teaches a lie, like "The Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Commandments". Are they building on the Foundation of Christ? Or building on man's religious tradition?

I would say they are not "workers together" with Paul at all.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Does the Spirit of God dwell in EVERYONE? And if not, who get's it according to the Bible.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

If a meaning of a scripture changes when we add "ALL" of God's Words, is the first meaning correct, or the latter?
Thank you for responding.

Though I can't see an answer to my question.
Who is saved through the fire?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,162
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Thank you for responding.

Though I can't see an answer to my question.
Who is saved through the fire?
NOR will you from a deceived working for Cainologist.........THE truth of that set of scriptures DESTROYS their false drivel.......
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,391
3,287
113
Yep our works will be judged and teachers of the bible will receive a much more strict judgement.

James3:1
"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."
Ah yes.
I had forgotten about that.
Thanks TT
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I've heard numerous people (particularly Roman Catholics) quote Romans 2:6-11 in an effort to try and prove that salvation is based on works. If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, then one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as we read and study these passages of scripture, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality (verse 7) is not set forth as the means of believers procuring eternal life, but is a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.

Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of receiving eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. Good deeds done out of faith are the fruit and not the root of salvation.

*If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).


mailmandan says:
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality (verse 7) is not set forth as the means of believers procuring eternal life, but is a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

You are right, and those that think they are saved, and do not continue in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality will not recieve EL.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Exactly how would you define the following found within believers

a. Works of WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE yet saved so as by fire
b. Cut lose for the destruction of the flesh that the SPIRIT may be saved
c. God chastening SONS whom he receives <---WHY?
d. NON sons without chastening

WHAT you all fail to acknowledge is the act of FAITH is DOING the WORK of the HEAVENLY FATHER and BY DEFAULT a BELIEVER before they BEAR one piece of fruit already has the bolded in this statement.
Paul tells us to be continually engaged in well doing. It is not a good work to believe and then we can go to the couch and watch TV until Christ comes. Right?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,408
3,256
113
I just got a NEW Commentary for my WORDsearch 10 software. It only cost $10, and it is the OPEN BIBLE COMMENTARY, and I cannot wait to use it. So I will excerpt part of the commentary from 1 John 1:8-10 dealing with those who reject the idea that we are ALL SINNERS.

God is light and true Christians love what is pure and right and want to live that way.​
. . .
. . .
This is followed by the person claiming perfection at any given moment (1:8), and finally, in 1:10 there is the one who denies that they have ever sinned or show any of its imperfections (the perfect tense in Greek). It is probable, however, that John is not thinking merely of those people who have persuaded themselves that darkness is light and that they are mysteriously right and all others wrong, but also of those people who in any given position claim complete rightness. With the ascending darkness of sin there is also the increasing power of Christ. In 1:9 we have the need of definite confession of the sin. Finally, in 2:1 we have awakened sinners calling on Christ to deal with the serious situation in which they find themselves.
. . .
Open Your Bible Commentary: OT and NT - Open Your Bible Commentary: OT and NT – Open Your Bible Commentary: The New Testament Page by Page, The.

Then I will see what they about ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.


Universal Condemnation

ROMANS 3:21-25a

Paul has painted a dark picture of human sin. He is now ready to describe the wonderful way in which sinners​
are put right with God.
. . .
. . .
God’s righteousness is shown to be unattainable by the Law. To fall short of his glory is to betray the prime function of our being, to demonstrate the marring of the divine image in which we were created. Therefore a clear definition of sin (3:23). See Psalm 4:4 and Isaiah 43:7 for the germ of Paul’s thought in his comprehensive statement.
. . .
Open Your Bible Commentary: OT and NT - Open Your Bible Commentary: OT and NT – Open Your Bible Commentary: The New Testament Page by Page, The.
Yes, I am sure I will get some some GOOD uses out of this one.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,162
17,517
113
Paul tells us to be continually engaged in well doing. It is not a good work to believe and then we can go to the couch and watch TV until Christ comes. Right?
Do you even understand what we have been saying the whole time......take a breath and pay attention to the following....

a. BIBLICAL SALVATION is entirely based upon GRACE through FAITH without 1 work attached to gain, keep, embellish, finish, top off or guarantee salvation.

b. One who has BELIEVED into the finished work of Christ on their behalf and acknowledge said belief is ETERNALLY saved, sealed, justified and Sanctified IN CHRIST ETERNALLY by the FREE, IRREVOCABLE GIFT of FAITH

c. NO ONE who believe A and B above has said that BELIEVERS will sit on their proverbial BUTT and do NOTHING. WE have said NUMEROUS times that genuine BELIEVERS will have WORKS of EVERY FLAVOR, both GOOD and BAD.

d. Believers will produce EVEN if BUT ONE PIECE OF FRUIT

e. ALL who have BELIEVED have ALREADY done the work of the HEAVENLY FATHER in BELIEF

f. Bearing fruit, works DO not save, KEEP saved, Earn salvation, BUY salvation, FINISH salvation, TOP off salvation which is a ONE off eternal EVENT with present continuing results based upon CHRIST and his work, promises and power.....

ALL who blend faith plus works to GAIN, KEEP or FINISH salvation peddle a FALSE gospel with no power. THE simplicity found in Christ is simply to BELIEVE on HIM whom the Heavenly Father has SENT!

IT PLEASED GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that believe.

SALVATION is GIVEN at the moment of belief and is SPOKEN of in ALL three verb tenses....both past, present and future application because of the PERFECT TENSE and Aorist TENSE VERBS that are applied.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,408
3,256
113
Hey MMD, Sorry I won't be answering that post of yours.
I'm outta here.
You and @BillG are the only ones I could speak to here.
I wish @Studyman the best but I doubt it.
Anyway, I'll be seeing you around.
GG

So you will do that, rather than admit you are a SINNER, just like the rest of us.