Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Can people please expand their thoughts on the following

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So does it apply to works or to what we teach?
Every post on here containing verses and an explanation is teaching.

So what is it?

If we teach crap yet as a result we are saved does it seem fair that those who walk the Christian life in that way would not be saved.

Food for Thought.

In the book of Revelation there are Seven Letters to Seven DIFFERENT CHURCHES. HE RECOGNIZED all Seven were getting some Saved. Some More than Others. In fact I believe all Seven can be found today, when you look at their Characteristics. Seven Churches will not be necessarily along Denominational Barriers. You can have all seven represented in one denomination, as well as those that one denomination is LIKE characteristics of ONE type of Church. Usually what ever Type is represenative of their Pastor, so will the majority of his congregation be. But either way, all Seven Belong to Christ, even though so some have doctrinal errors, but I believe all teach the Trinity and CHRIST RIGHT. Remember HE had condemnation comments on 5 of the 7 Churches. We Christians are FAMOUS for Majoring on the Minor THINGS.

FOR EXAMPLE: I used to belong to one Church that had Foot Washing Ordinance on one Sunday Evening a month. I Thought it was SILLY to make it into an Ordinance, because I never thought it was supposed to be an ORDINANCE. So I did not go during that Foot Washing Service, because according to MY understanding, is that IT WAS A NECESSITY, normally to assigned to a Servant. Because after walking down Dirt Roads, all day, their FEET were Extremely Dirty, and when you are wanting to RECLINE on Cushions at the Supper Table, you did not want someone next to you with Dirty feet. So the reason JESUS wanted to wash their FEET was for an example, that when we are Ministering to Others, we should be willing to take the Role of a Servant. So I do not think having Washing Feet as a Church Ordinance was the Proper Interpretation of what JESUS DID THAT NIGHT. No, I never did tell anyone my opinion, I just chose to stay at home that particular night. I will say, that Church was one of the Best Bible Teaching Church, and Christians fellowshiping like they should, that I have ever been involved with.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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The elder, To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth-
because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love. It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John 1:2‭-‬11 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/2jn.1.2-11.NIV
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Thanks anyway, but I will fear God and keep and obey His commandments as taught by a man inspired by God and whose wisdom is better than mine and i will live up to what i already attained as taught by the apostle Paul

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:13‭-‬14

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Philippians 3:12‭-‬16
Sure no problem, if what you believe does not pass the test of scripture people here will let you know.

God bless!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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The elder, To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth-
because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love. It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John 1:2‭-‬11 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/2jn.1.2-11.NIV
Hi again Argueless, I think it is safe to say most people on this forum have bibles; it would benefit everyone here greatly if you could add your thoughts to anything that you post and this way we will be able to have a dialog with you and make a positive contribution to your post.

God bless!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,973
4,074
113
Hi brother.

Thanks for responding and that is what I'm trying to solicit.
So does it have to do with what we teach or our works?
Jesus will judge our works, aka the sheep.
He only judges our works to see if they are worthy of heavenly rewards. Salvation is NOT A REWARD, it is a Free Gift of GOD.

My understanding the rewards are Like those that won a Race, in other words:

1540430949154.jpeg ................ 1540431016885.jpeg



Perhaps one leaf per work that HE finds worthy. HIS CHOOSING!

THE CROWNS ARE OUR REWARD.

But either way, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12

He explicitly gave Israel His sabbaths as a sign between them so that they would know it is He who sanctifies them.

as in, not they who sanctify themselves. be still. do no work. don't travel. don't kindle fire. depend on Him.
God's Word makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Hi again Argueless, I think it is safe to say most people on this forum have bibles; it would benefit everyone here greatly if you could add your thoughts to anything that you post and this way we will be able to have a dialog with you and make a positive contribution to your post.

God bless!
He has already said he believes he keeps the law and the commandments of God......or WILL keep them....not likely!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,973
4,074
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Thank you for sharing your views on this matter, I appreciate it.


My view on the other hand is that when a farmer plants or sows seeds into his field, he expects them to grow in more or less than four months before he harvests them.


If the seed sown is a fruit tree, fruits are expected after some years of growth. If a tree does not bear fruit, scripture tells us that it is cut down and burned (used as firewood).(Luke 3:9)


We know that seeds need to be watered, need sunlight, care and attention for them to grow.


In the same way, salvation goes to a process of growth and maturity.


Salvation through justification is the first step and it’s the process of cultivation which prepares the land soil before sowing the seeds. This is when believers are forgiven of their sins, washed clean and reconciled to God. Justification gives life to a once DEAD in sin person (Romans 5:18). In the same way that a farmer do not sow fresh seeds.( hope you know what I mean since I am not a farmer) Man has no part in Justification. Let man give all the glory to God the Father and His only begotten son, our LORD Jesus Christ.


After cultivating the land, the seeds are sown, watered and grown. This is the process of salvation through sanctification. Believers receive the WORD of truth in which the WORD is the Spirit.(john 1:1-3 & 14, 6:63, 14:17, 15:26, 17:17, 2 Corinthians 3:17)). Believers receive the Holy Spirit through FAITH, (Galatians 3:14) giving them the power to obey God.


So in my view, Sanctification is the salvation process wherein believers grow in their FAITH and live by the Spirit. It is when we do the works God had before ordained for us to walk in (Ephesians 2:10), to walk in LOVE.(2 john 1:6) and bear fruits of the Spirit (galatians 5:22). It is when obedience leads to righteousness which leads to holiness and the result is eternal life.(Romans 6:16-22)


This is my view and I believe that.. “OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVE.”(Romans 13:11)


…. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.(1 Corinthians 6:9-11)


...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”(John 4:34-38)


... Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men? What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.(1 Corinthians 3:1-9)



Just remember JESUS said, BY THEIR FRUIT, YOU WILL KNOW THEM.

The Rocky Soil and the Thorny Soil, never produced Fruit. So they are counterfeit Christians.

Here is the FRUIT of a REAL CHRISTIAN:

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


Those are LIFESTYLE Characteristics. Notice that the PRIMARY FRUIT IS LOVE. Jews always when they make a list of things, put the Primary FIRST, and the Least Important LAST.

SO LOVE IS THE PRIMARY FRUIT OF A REAL CHRISTIAN:


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.


You SAID:

Justification gives life to a once DEAD in sin person (Romans 5:18).

Now you should be able to see my POINT. The Rocky Soil and the Thorny Soil, Never produced FRUIT, and they remain in DEATH, therefore they were NEVER BORN AGAIN.


Only the GOOD SOIL produces a harvest, who are those who were Born Again.


This is not the same story, but Have you ever seen how Closely TARES (wheat-looking WEEDS) resemble WHEAT?


1540433781264.jpeg

1540433814524.jpeg

OH MY, VERY SIMILAR INDEED.

We had a guy here about 6 months ago, full of anger, calling us all hypocrites, and constantly trying to stir up dissension among the Brethren. I watched him closely for about two months, so I finally asked him, "Where is your LOVE, we do not see it." Shortly there after, he left our the Thread. I really believe, even with a young Christian, there SHOULD be a small amount of LOVE present, because GOD's LOVE was Poured into the Hearts of Born Again Christians, Rom. 5:5, but NOTHING with that guy.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Hey everybody,
GodsGrace10 1

Just told me that it is: #75,041

Wow.
A real Pharisee in our midst.
A legalistic supreme.

Lord have mercy.

To my posting of this VERSE in POST, #75,039:

1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.


He does not want to admit these Violations of State and City ORDINANCES are SIN. Maybe he thinks he is Sinless, therefore these OBVIOUS SINS, he will not CONFESS. And he called me a PHARISEE, when he does not even want to CONFESS these obvious Sins.
if that's the reaction we will get when we point out the sins of others

showing the truth (all have sinned) is harder than we think :unsure:
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Just remember JESUS said, BY THEIR FRUIT, YOU WILL KNOW THEM.

The Rocky Soil and the Thorny Soil, never produced Fruit. So they are counterfeit Christians.

Here is the FRUIT of a REAL CHRISTIAN:

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


Those are LIFESTYLE Characteristics. Notice that the PRIMARY FRUIT IS LOVE. Jews always when they make a list of things, put the Primary FIRST, and the Least Important LAST.

SO LOVE IS THE PRIMARY FRUIT OF A REAL CHRISTIAN:


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.


You SAID:

Justification gives life to a once DEAD in sin person (Romans 5:18).

Now you should be able to see my POINT. The Rocky Soil and the Thorny Soil, Never produced FRUIT, and they remain in DEATH, therefore they were NEVER BORN AGAIN.


Only the GOOD SOIL produces a harvest, who are those who were Born Again.


This is not the same story, but Have you ever seen how Closely TARES (wheat-looking WEEDS) resemble WHEAT?


View attachment 189584

View attachment 189585

OH MY, VERY SIMILAR INDEED.

We had a guy here about 6 months ago, full of anger, calling us all hypocrites, and constantly trying to stir up dissension among the Brethren. I watched him closely for about two months, so I finally asked him, "Where is your LOVE, we do not see it." Shortly there after, he left our the Thread. I really believe, even with a young Christian, there SHOULD be a small amount of LOVE present, because GOD's LOVE was Poured into the Hearts of Born Again Christians, Rom. 5:5, but NOTHING with that guy.
To clarify things regarding love, our LORD Jesus as a man though He is the WORD that became flesh-john 1:14- said: ... but the world must learn that "I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me." Paul said that though Jesus was the Son of God, HE learned obedience from what He suffered.-hebrews 5:8-

Would you agree that love is to walk in obedience to His commandments? (2 john 1:6, 1 john 5:3, john 14:15,21-24, Romans 13:10 and more)

God showed His love for us by sending His only begotten Son as an atoning sacrifice for our SINS. (1john 4:8-21, john 3:16) And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

You believe that we are SAVED through FAITH in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Do you also believe that "salvation by God's grace and mercy through FAITH" is God's work of love for us?

We love God because He first loved us, and you believe that obedience is part of love but not a part of salvation.

How can anyone love God without obeying His command to love his brothers and neighbors?

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1 John 3:16

It is clear that when Jesus laid down His life for us, we were saved(justification) and we ought to lay down our life for our brothers(obedience).

We cannot separate obedience from salvation for "THEY ARE WHAT LOVE IS."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12

He explicitly gave Israel His sabbaths as a sign between them so that they would know it is He who sanctifies them.

as in, not they who sanctify themselves. be still. do no work. don't travel. don't kindle fire. depend on Him.

Yes, I know Post, your scripture is tougher than my scripture.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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who's silent?

For I am confident of this very thing:
that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus!
(Philippians 1:6)
Funny that a Cainologist uses that as a go to verse to try and prove some sort of working for sinless perfectionist......the word does not even mean or imply what he is using it for........

Talking about NONSTUDYMAN's use of----> Be ye PERFECT as your Heavenly Father is perfect...............
 
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do you think this is some kind of contest?

is it true you don't have eternal life?
Not according to his own words...................and or false dogma of self saving, working for, perfectionist, Cainologist belief.....He openly states that no one is saved and or has eternal life "YET"
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That is why we have God`s grace and mercies new every morning because we fail every day...xox...
Exactly Rose.....the mercies of the Lord are renewed daily and the mercy of the Lord ENDURES FOREVER <--read Psalm 136 is one of my favorites
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,733
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Not according to his own words...................and or false dogma of self saving, working for, perfectionist, Cainologist belief.....He openly states that no one is saved and or has eternal life "YET"
my favorite of needs to studyman is his belief that the Pharisees were devil worshipers , based on one piece of one sentence Jesus said.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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To clarify things regarding love, our LORD Jesus as a man though He is the WORD that became flesh-john 1:14- said: ... but the world must learn that "I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me." Paul said that though Jesus was the Son of God, HE learned obedience from what He suffered.-hebrews 5:8-

Would you agree that love is to walk in obedience to His commandments? (2 john 1:6, 1 john 5:3, john 14:15,21-24, Romans 13:10 and more)

God showed His love for us by sending His only begotten Son as an atoning sacrifice for our SINS. (1john 4:8-21, john 3:16) And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

You believe that we are SAVED through FAITH in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Do you also believe that "salvation by God's grace and mercy through FAITH" is God's work of love for us?

We love God because He first loved us, and you believe that obedience is part of love but not a part of salvation.

How can anyone love God without obeying His command to love his brothers and neighbors?

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1 John 3:16

It is clear that when Jesus laid down His life for us, we were saved(justification) and we ought to lay down our life for our brothers(obedience).

We cannot separate obedience from salvation for "THEY ARE WHAT LOVE IS."
Lord I would DIE for you.
I don't know who in the ---- he is X 3
Crucified UPSIDE DOWN in ROME for Christ

LOVE is a process of GROWTH and MATURITY AFTER one has already been SAVED.....it is subject to SUCCESS and FAILURE

PETER, Do you LOVE ME X 3

Your last bolded statement is false and conflates numerous issues and truths into one big quagmire of fallacy..........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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my favorite of needs to studyman is his belief that the Pharisees were devil worshipers , based on one piece of one sentence Jesus said.
Shows how bias and near sighted his view is.....Nicodemus came to him by night BELIEVING and it states clearly that MANY of them "Pharisees" believed on him but out of fear remind in the background.....Studyman does not know what he is talking about and consistently misses the mark
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
James 3:13-18 Two Kinds of Wisdom Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.