Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
Do you want to know the major difference between the Gospel of Jesus and the other world religions like Islam?

God's unmeritted Agape love and grace for sinful humanity. His forgiveness of our sin because of what Jesus did. Not what we do.

Islam states the Bible lies. Abraham was perfect and sinless..he didn't lie about being married to Sarah. Samson wasn't a drunk who disregarded his Nazarite vows, and it was Ismaeul not Isaac who was the chosen one of God. Jesus was just another prophet.

They deny his divinity.

They state that he set a good example to follow but deny his redeeming blood shed on the Cross. Some even deny Jesus died, some claim God took Him off the Cross like Elijah was taken into heaven on chariots of fire.

What is undenible is that Jesus will return and judge the world.

What Islam throws into question is what was Jesus gospel message?

Was he a Savior who died on the Cross and rose again on the third day so we might be cleansed and become adopted children of God?

Or was he just another prophet like Buddha teaching the world God's laws and morality?

Was Jesus only another finger (only another man) pointing to the Moon of enlightenment or is He our Light in the darkness of this place?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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the gospel, dude, is about faith in the work of Christ, not about hating pharisees.

do try and keep up :)[/QUOTE]





what did the Pharisees do? over the years, they added all 613 laws on top of Torah. they thought keeping those laws made one right with God.


studyman does the same thing- just plucks out verses, no context, and just writes in his own opinions , and puts it under the banner of " the Christ " and " the Word became flesh ".

the Pharisees just ignored any command of the Torah they did not like, and just wrote a law to nullify it.

studyman just ignores any Scripture that does not fit his agenda.

studyman is a modern day Pharisee. thus he demonizes the Pharisees while doing what they do. that is how propaganda works. demonize your opposition while you do same thing.

the Pharisees rejected Jesus being the Messiah. studyman rejects Jesus full humanity and deity.

I could go on, but ya'll get the point.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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((since someone wants to talk about pharisees instead of about Jesus))

what does the Lord of all creation say the unbelieving pharisees had set their hope on?

John 5:45
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.

oh, Moses?
that's interesting.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Paul wasn't writing about individual salvation but rather the body of Christ. Titus 3 begins with the following:

1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
Ummmm......no thanks.........he is speaking of salvation of the individual and WE and US speaks volumes in light of verses 3-5.......try again.......not buying your view....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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this is about Jesus, dude, not about pharisees.

the gospel, dude, is about faith in the work of Christ, not about hating pharisees.

do try and keep up :)
He could not keep up theologically with a sitting wheel chair with no one in it.......if you miss the target by a 1/4 inch at 5 feet what happens the further the bullet travels?....a miss is a miss regardless of the distance by one misses............!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The Cell Theory Is a Unifying Principle of Biology
The cell theory states that all biological organisms are composed of cells; cells are the unit of life and all life comes from preexisting life. The cell theory is so established today that it forms one of the unifying principles of biology.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/cell-theory

I have people often lack logic.

If you believe cell theory, how can you believe that living things come from nonliving things without twisting simple logic?


Genesis 1:1-28 (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Colossians 1:16-18 (NCV)
16 Through his power all things were made—things in heaven and on earth, things seen and unseen, all powers, authorities, lords, and rulers. All things were made through Christ and for Christ.
17 He was there before anything was made, and all things continue because of him.
18 He is the head of the body, which is the church. Everything comes from him. He is the first one who was raised from the dead. So in all things Jesus has first place.

Romans 1:18-22 (HCSB)
18 For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools


HE PROVED HOW HE CREATES AT THE FEEDING OF THE 5000 AND THE 4000, AND HE SAYS HE DOES NOT CHANGE.


Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
6 "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 (HCSB)
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.


In my opinion, YOU EITHER BELIEVE THE BIBLE, OR YOU ARE ONE OF THE FOOLS.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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or, give them example of birds,
What I think is so cool and MOST miss this truth.....everything that flies in the midst of heaven came from the SEA

Another thing that gets overlooked is the fact that God said......LET the EARTH/SEA BRING FORTH........
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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How many people know that in the story of Abraham, others heard directly from God besides this pillar of faith?

A pillar that lied about being married to his half sister Sarai (claiming her as a sister and not wife to avoid being killed) and had sex with Hagar because they lacked faith that God would fulfill His supernatural promise to give them a Son and raise a nation more numerous than the stars.

How can that happen if Abraham was killed? He had no reason to lie. Yet God's grace is greater than our human fears.

God spoke to Hagar. (The other of Ismaeul who the Muslims claim descent from) he spoke to what many call pagan Kings but who respected God enough to bless His prophet Abraham.

People need to take the Jewish rabbis false lens off the scriptures and walk with Jesus like those men on the road to Emmaus. The veil is torn. Why do people seek to recreate it?
I find this fascinating. Abraham was told to leave everything he knew, his religion, his family, and follow the Word of God into a foreign land. And Abraham did as the Lord commanded, he left everything he knew because he trusted God. Abraham was told by this same God to take his only son and sacrifice him. And Abraham did, certainly in his mind. Abraham did all these things that was commanded of him and many more because he trusted God. That is a very important part of Abraham's story that you completely ignored.

No, instead you scour the scriptures to find a sin, any sin, and when you find one, you make sure everyone you know sees, not his faith, or faithfulness, Not his commitment to God, respect and faithfulness to God. Not the judgment God has already given you about Abraham. God forbid, no, you make sure all your brethren SEE your judgment of him, you make sure they SEE his Nakedness.

The same thing was done to Noah, and todays religions do to David as well, all the time. And why? Always to justify disobedience to God. I might remind you that Abraham wasn't the Friend of God because of his sin, rather because of his Faithfulness.

And God never mentioned this sin you declare, never called it is sin, never addressed it even once in the entire Bible as a sin. But you do. You should think about that.

With all this "Faith" that Abraham exhibited, would God refuse him of some Grace? I would think not. But religions which did not the "work of Abraham" didn't receive God's Grace. They sinned too? Why didn't Grace abound in them? What made Abraham different?

It seems that God didn't give Abraham His Grace because he told a lie about his wife. It seems God gave Abraham His Grace because Abraham trusted in Him enough to do what He said.

So I don't think the Story about Abraham was intended to promote or excuse disobedience to God, I think it is clear that the Story of Abraham was to show what happens when we Love God and Trust Him enough to do as He says. This is what true "Faith" is. This is why he was forgiven and God never laid those sins against him. If God didn't remember, remind us through out the Bible, point out his sins, then surely us mere mortals shouldn't judge Abraham as a liar.

I think God was just keeping His Eternal Promise to Abraham that He told Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.

The story of Abraham wasn't about his sin, but about His obedience.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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understanding that he believes God stopped being God explains why he is trying to teach us that God grafted God into God. because he thinks God wasn't God anymore at that time ((i.e. Jesus, who says "I AM the Root" was grafted into the root? wut?))

;)

it's a mess, but it's not without its logic. not sure which button was first to be misaligned tho
So did your God change his own diapers? Did He tell Himself "This is my son"? Who did He learn obedience from, Himself? Was He walking on water as a toddler, or was your God born 30 years old.

What is so hard about believing the Word? I just don't get it. Did He come in the Flesh or not? Were the Pharisees obeying God or not? Are God's Laws for man or not?

Creating your own religion, while popular in human culture, is not wise in my opinion.

The Man Jesus was nourished by the same Root that fed Zechariahs, and Abraham. Your unbelief doesn't make these things untrue.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

God enfleshed.

not 'God no longer God anymore'

God, manifest in flesh.

not 'man who used to be God'

God, manifest in flesh.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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this is about Jesus, dude, not about pharisees.

the gospel, dude, is about faith in the work of Christ, not about hating pharisees.

do try and keep up :)
It's about truth or lies Dude.

God is the Father of Truth and satan of the father of untruth.

It is a lie to preach that the Pharisees were trying to "Earn" Salvation by obeying God. It is a lie to preach God didn't come in the Flesh.

I will not keep up with you, I am going the opposite direction, towards the Truth.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

God enfleshed.

not 'God no longer God anymore'

God, manifest in flesh.

not 'man who used to be God'

God, manifest in flesh.
I know your preaching, but you didn't answer the questions I posed. You just, as is your custom, ignored them.

When did He become the High Priest? When He was nursing? Or did your Jesus not come as a baby?

God is Spirit, not Flesh. The Spirit God "became Flesh". Your unbelief doesn't make God's Word's or Prophesies Void.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It is a lie to preach that the Pharisees were trying to "Earn" Salvation by obeying God. It is a lie to preach God didn't come in the Flesh.
it's a lie to keep on falsely accusing me of saying either of these things, especially seeing that for a year you've known and been repeatedly told that I've said neither.

it's called slander.
what does the scripture say about willfully malicious liars, dude?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I know your preaching, but you didn't answer the questions I posed. You just, as is your custom, ignored them.

When did He become the High Priest? When He was nursing? Or did your Jesus not come as a baby?

God is Spirit, not Flesh. The Spirit God "became Flesh". Your unbelief doesn't make God's Word's or Prophesies Void.
the Sprit came down into Christ after John Baptized him.

so, there is that.

you do believe in the Holy Sprit, don't you??
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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understanding that he believes God stopped being God explains why he is trying to teach us that God grafted God into God. because he thinks God wasn't God anymore at that time ((i.e. Jesus, who says "
I AM the Root" was grafted into the root? wut?))
it's a mess, but it's not without its logic. not sure which button was first to be misaligned tho :)
Hi posthuman,

Remember when this happened on that beautiful day of fishin; it was appropriately named a "Rats Nest" or backlash, which is what it is like to untwist Studyman's tangled mess of junk theology.

 
Oct 25, 2018
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Hi posthuman,
Remember when this happened on that beautiful day of fishin; it was appropriately named a "Rats Nest" or backlash, which is what it is like to untwist Studyman's tangled mess of junk theology.



Observation - Interpretation - Application
A wrong interpretation = A wrong Application always

I have done that my friend(mangling the line in a reel, we call that making a bird’s nest). When one relies on their self to get to heaven, they make a mangled mess of their lives.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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of course

i only thought to help, because i've known dude to be very evasive over certain questions. for example, he's replied to your question several times now with lengthy posts that do not in any way address your question.

'
kenosis' is the doctrine that Jesus was not God in the flesh. 100% human, 100% not divine at all. the name comes from the Greek word 'to empty' found in Philippians 2:5-8 --

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,[b] but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Footnotes:

  1. Philippians 2:5 Or which was also in Christ Jesus
  2. Philippians 2:6 Or a thing to be held on to for advantage
  3. Philippians 2:7 Or slave (for the contextual rendering of the Greek word doulos, see Preface)
as i understand dude, tho he says Christ was God, he believes He no longer was God anymore once He took on flesh. he says "gods do not die" he believes that God can cease to be God. perhaps if pressed he will say John 1 says the Word was God, means that He's not anymore?
Very interesting to see how different translations of the bible can push you down a different path of believing.

Philippians 2:5-7 American Standard Version (ASV)
5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a [a]servant, being made in the likeness of men;

Philippians 2:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Notice in ASV it says, Jesus, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped. (IOW, this translation makes it sound like Jesus did not think it was possible to be equal to God, a thing that could not be grasped)

But in the KJV it says, Jesus, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. (IOW, this translation makes it sound like Jesus did think it was possible to be equal with God. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God.)

So what do you think, can Jesus be equal to God or not? At least this scripture and the different translations make it difficult to know.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Very interesting to see how different translations of the bible can push you down a different path of believing.

Philippians 2:5-7 American Standard Version (ASV)
5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a [a]servant, being made in the likeness of men;

Philippians 2:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Notice in ASV it says, Jesus, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped. (IOW, this translation makes it sound like Jesus did not think it was possible to be equal to God, a thing that could not be grasped)

But in the KJV it says, Jesus, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. (IOW, this translation makes it sound like Jesus did think it was possible to be equal with God. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God.)

So what do you think, can Jesus be equal to God or not? At least this scripture and the different translations make it difficult to know.
Jesus IS God my friend. He is the second person in the triune Godhead, God the Son.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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the gospel, dude, is about faith in the work of Christ, not about hating pharisees.

do try and keep up :)



what did the Pharisees do? over the years, they added all 613 laws on top of Torah. they thought keeping those laws made one right with God.
I know this is your religion, but I'm sticking to the Jesus of the Bible. You know, the one you refuse to "believe".

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you Preach)

studyman does the same thing- just plucks out verses, no context, and just writes in his own opinions , and puts it under the banner of " the Christ " and " the Word became flesh ".

the Pharisees just ignored any command of the Torah they did not like, and just wrote a law to nullify it.

studyman just ignores any Scripture that does not fit his agenda.
No, the Mainstream Preachers, like their father the serpent, uses parts of God's Word in their religion, just as you do and the Pope, and all "Ministers of Righteousness" Paul warned of. They just don't believe "EVERY WORD", because that would bring the Light to shine on them, and they prefer darkness.

studyman is a modern day Pharisee. thus he demonizes the Pharisees while doing what they do. that is how propaganda works. demonize your opposition while you do same thing.

the Pharisees rejected Jesus being the Messiah. studyman rejects Jesus full humanity and deity.

I could go on, but ya'll get the point.
The Pharisees rejected the God of the Bible as their father, and chose instead your father. Had they not rejected God, and lived like Zechariahs, they would have known the Messiah as Zechariahs knew Him.

You use your own words to ridicule me, but it is the Word of God which expose your religion. I know you don't believe Jesus came in the Flesh, that is why you can lie about Him with no remorse.

The Pharisees did the same thing, and I showed you why, but you don't believe who their father was. Why???? Because it is the truth.