Not By Works

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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="BillG, post: 3784380, member: 252071"]Jesus would.

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26, 27)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

After all the above did do the things that Jesus commanded them to do and more.
Billy,

Everyone ever born does "something" God has commanded at some point. It's not the "lawful" things these folks did that Jesus sited as the reason He didn't know them, it was the "Lawless" things they practiced.

I think you are "omitting" some important facts about this scripture.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

What is "That Day" and why are these folks defending their religion in it?

"That Day" is the "Last Great Day" when all who have not been raised in the first resurrection with Abraham, are raised and judged.

Their eyes are opened, they see the lake of fire and realize what has happened and their impending fate. That is the time they will plead with the Christ and defend their religious lifestyle.

Not before that day. Before "That Day, before they died, Jesus says for them to "Repent", deny yourself (leave your practice of lawlessness) and Follow Him. He offers those who "Love Him and Keep His Commandments" Mercy. But that time is passed in this Example He gives us.

On this Day He is speaking of, there is no mercy offered, even though these folks clearly claimed to know Him and clearly claimed "belief" in Him.

On "THAT DAY" there is no offer of His Grace, even though these Folks gave Jesus all the credit for all the "good" works they did, even though they "believed" in Him..

On this day there is no instruction to repent, the window of repentance is closed. (As David in the Spirit says "Today" if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts)

In the defense of their religion which called Him Lord, Lord, they are only telling you those things they did that were not lawless. Folks who spend their time defending their religion rarely confess to those things they do which are lawless. (breaking His Sabbath, creating images of God, following man made traditions while rejecting God's instructions, etc.)

So your attempt to use this scriptures and say that Jesus rejected these "Christians" because they were following His Commandments is not only a horrible thing to imply, but is also about as false as a person can be.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Billy,

Everyone ever born does "something" God has commanded at some point. It's not the "lawful" things these folks did that Jesus sited as the reason He didn't know them, it was the "Lawless" things they practiced.

I think you are "omitting" some important facts about this scripture.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

What is "That Day" and why are these folks defending their religion in it?

"That Day" is the "Last Great Day" when all who have not been raised in the first resurrection with Abraham, are raised and judged.

Their eyes are opened, they see the lake of fire and realize what has happened and their impending fate. That is the time they will plead with the Christ and defend their religious lifestyle.

Not before that day. Before "That Day, before they died, Jesus says for them to "Repent", deny yourself (leave your practice of lawlessness) and Follow Him. He offers those who "Love Him and Keep His Commandments" Mercy. But that time is passed in this Example He gives us.

On this Day He is speaking of, there is no mercy offered, even though these folks clearly claimed to know Him and clearly claimed "belief" in Him.

On "THAT DAY" there is no offer of His Grace, even though these Folks gave Jesus all the credit for all the "good" works they did, even though they "believed" in Him..

On this day there is no instruction to repent, the window of repentance is closed. (As David in the Spirit says "Today" if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts)

In the defense of their religion which called Him Lord, Lord, they are only telling you those things they did that were not lawless. Folks who spend their time defending their religion rarely confess to those things they do which are lawless. (breaking His Sabbath, creating images of God, following man made traditions while rejecting God's instructions, etc.)

So your attempt to use this scriptures and say that Jesus rejected these "Christians" because they were following His Commandments is not only a horrible thing to imply, but is also about as false as a person can be.
Read it again.

I did not say they were rejected because they were following his command's.
Why do you make such stuff up?
They were rejected because he never knew them.

Find any post where I have said where any genuine believer who follows Jesus and wants to be be like him will be rejected.
They won't because he knows them.

You are quite slanderous above.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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This would be you saving yourself. And not God saving you.

The law could not save anyone, Why do you think your works could save you? Just asking..

Man's Works can not save. The Word of God saves as my Savior declares.


John 6:
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (Creating All things including His Commandments)
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

In your religion, are these not from the Word of God which became Flesh? Are these not Christ's Words. Shall I trust a religion which promotes "Disbelief" in the Christ who spoke these Word's?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,766
3,703
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Man's Works can not save. The Word of God saves as my Savior declares.


John 6:
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (Creating All things including His Commandments)
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

In your religion, are these not from the Word of God which became Flesh? Are these not Christ's Words. Shall I trust a religion which promotes "Disbelief" in the Christ who spoke these Word's?
well, since you think Jesus was just a man, you can't even say you called Him Lord.

so, your punishment will be just. blasphemy is a horrible offence . you should accept the LORD Jesus Christ as your savior.

your " the Christ " can't save anyone. the real Jesus can.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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Read it again.

I did not say they were rejected because they were following his command's.
Why do you make such stuff up?
They were rejected because he never knew them.

Find any post where I have said where any genuine believer who follows Jesus and wants to be be like him will be rejected.
They won't because he knows them.

You are quite slanderous above.
Now wait a minute there Billy. You replied to a question.

"So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?"

To which you responded.

"Jesus would."

Then you went about using Matthew 7 as support for your preaching that Jesus "would say" that obedience has no bearing on salvation because those in Matt. 7 were obeying and Jesus still rejected them.

"After all the above did do the things that Jesus commanded them to do and more."

Why are you now back peddling, trying to deny what you said, and worse, calling me slanderous for simply pointing it out?

There is no intellectually honest person that can read the Word of God and come away preaching "Obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation".

Are you really trying to preach to any one who would listen to you, that Jesus said, taught, or instructed His People that obedience to His Father has absolutely zero bearing in Salvation?

Come on Billy, even you must see the deception in this teaching.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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well, since you think Jesus was just a man, you can't even say you called Him Lord.

so, your punishment will be just. blasphemy is a horrible offence . you should accept the LORD Jesus Christ as your savior.

your " the Christ " can't save anyone. the real Jesus can.
I've seen your Jesus G9. All handsome, manicured fingers, perfect long flowing hair. Born on Dec. 25th. He has no Sabbath, no Holy Days, has do definition of sin accept to worship the invisible Christ of the Bible.

As I have said, you are free to create your own god if you like. I'm sticking with the Word of God which became Flesh in the person of Jesus, the perfect human who died and has risen and returned where He was before.

You can't help your hatred, I don't hold it against you because I know, like Cain, it wasn't Able that he hated, but the Christ that was in him.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You definitely did not say he wasnt or provethatHS is a Being. HS overshadowed Mary and she conceived! this is disgusting ! I am fixing to watch Cowboys and Saints!
If you keep pointing out their hypocrisy and ridiculous religious doctrines and traditions, you will learn why Jesus said "they hated Me before they hated you".

You go girl. :)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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So your attempt to use this scriptures and say that Jesus rejected these "Christians" because they were following His Commandments is not only a horrible thing to imply, but is also about as false as a person can be.
I'm responding to the above.
Your cutting little contemptuous remark.

Along with all the others you make
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,757
3,687
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Now wait a minute there Billy. You replied to a question.

"So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?"

To which you responded.

"Jesus would."

Then you went about using Matthew 7 as support for your preaching that Jesus "would say" that obedience has no bearing on salvation because those in Matt. 7 were obeying and Jesus still rejected them.

"After all the above did do the things that Jesus commanded them to do and more."

Why are you now back peddling, trying to deny what you said, and worse, calling me slanderous for simply pointing it out?

There is no intellectually honest person that can read the Word of God and come away preaching "Obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation".

Are you really trying to preach to any one who would listen to you, that Jesus said, taught, or instructed His People that obedience to His Father has absolutely zero bearing in Salvation?

Come on Billy, even you must see the deception in this teaching.
Yes and what did I quote from Matthew.
They were rejected because he never knew them even though they boast in great works.

But you decided to overlook that as you do with everyone with a view to pushing what you do because you are right and everyone else is wrong.

You say you wish to discuss.
Rubbish you wish to push and put others down.

The one thing with the others who agree with your theology is that they are not as rude and slanderous and accusatory as you are and willing to discuss.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,766
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I've seen your Jesus G9. All handsome, manicured fingers, perfect long flowing hair. Born on Dec. 25th. He has no Sabbath, no Holy Days, has do definition of sin accept to worship the invisible Christ of the Bible.

As I have said, you are free to create your own god if you like. I'm sticking with the Word of God which became Flesh in the person of Jesus, the perfect human who died and has risen and returned where He was before.

You can't help your hatred, I don't hold it against you because I know, like Cain, it wasn't Able that he hated, but the Christ that was in him.
what I hate is those who call the Lord and Savior of the world a liar.

which you do, because Jesus said that he had the authority to forgive sins.

Jesus could know other's thoughts.

Jesus said " destroy this temple and I will raise it again in 3 days '

if you were to believe these, and their are many more, things, then you would have to call Jesus fully human and fully Devine.

but, since you do not think Jesus is fully Devine, then you are saying that He could not do these things, thereby calling Him a liar.

that makes you a blasphemer.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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516
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Yes and what did I quote from Matthew.
They were rejected because he never knew them even though they boast in great works.

But you decided to overlook that as you do with everyone with a view to pushing what you do because you are right and everyone else is wrong.

You say you wish to discuss.
Rubbish you wish to push and put others down.

The one thing with the others who agree with your theology is that they are not as rude and slanderous and accusatory as you are and willing to discuss.
It is you who used Matt. 7 to promote the falsehood "Jesus would say" obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation. When Jesus Himself told you flat out just the opposite.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Your teaching is just another in the long line of modern church doctrines that the Word of God exposes as false.

Your anger at me for letting God's Word expose these doctrines is as natural as anger itself. Jesus said it would be like this. I don't hold your anger against you.

My hope is that maybe someday you might soften your heart and believe God's Word over the religious doctrines and traditions of the religions of the world. But unless a person "believes" in the Word of God which became Flesh, they will not be persuaded. As it is written;

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Anger, deflection, miss-direction, none of these things will change the Biblical Fact that Jesus NEVER said, NEVER implied, NEVER Taught that "Obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation".

Your unbelief does not make the Word of God Void.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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what I hate is those who call the Lord and Savior of the world a liar.

which you do, because Jesus said that he had the authority to forgive sins.

Jesus could know other's thoughts.

Jesus said " destroy this temple and I will raise it again in 3 days '

if you were to believe these, and their are many more, things, then you would have to call Jesus fully human and fully Devine.

but, since you do not think Jesus is fully Devine, then you are saying that He could not do these things, thereby calling Him a liar.

that makes you a blasphemer.
I know what the "ministers of righteousness" teach today G9. But I believe in the Word of God which became Flesh.

Who did Jesus say gave Him Authority to forgive sins? Whose doctrines did Jesus teach? Who gave Him Commandment?

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I know you can't help your hatred of those who expose your religious traditions which transgress God's Commandments.

I don't hold your anger against you.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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It is you who used Matt. 7 to promote the falsehood "Jesus would say" obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation. When Jesus Himself told you flat out just the opposite.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Your teaching is just another in the long line of modern church doctrines that the Word of God exposes as false.

Your anger at me for letting God's Word expose these doctrines is as natural as anger itself. Jesus said it would be like this. I don't hold your anger against you.

My hope is that maybe someday you might soften your heart and believe God's Word over the religious doctrines and traditions of the religions of the world. But unless a person "believes" in the Word of God which became Flesh, they will not be persuaded. As it is written;

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Anger, deflection, miss-direction, none of these things will change the Biblical Fact that Jesus NEVER said, NEVER implied, NEVER Taught that "Obedience to God has no bearing in Salvation".

Your unbelief does not make the Word of God Void.
You have obviously decided to discard the amount of times I have posted the following verses in many a post.

And do the same to many others on here as well.


John 14:15-18 (NKJV)

Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

In fact v 15:16 I quoted in a post which you came at me for and proceeded to post those verse yourself as if I had never posted them myself.

I have also posted many times

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You are so self absorbed in yourself and your who ego you can't see the wood front the trees or should I say you don't want to.

Does it make you feel good slagging and putting other people down?

You constantly accuse people of following a pretty boy Jesus.
How insulting.

Is this how the church that you go teaches you how to disciple?

Oops if memory serves me you do not go to a church.

This I stand on and is essential

Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Discipling believers and baptising them.
Walking with them and encouragement to become more like Jesus.

No doubt you will overlook that and twist it in your favour.

Whatever
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I know what the "ministers of righteousness" teach today G9. But I believe in the Word of God which became Flesh.

Who did Jesus say gave Him Authority to forgive sins? Whose doctrines did Jesus teach? Who gave Him Commandment?

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I know you can't help your hatred of those who expose your religious traditions which transgress God's Commandments.

I don't hold your anger against you.
Evidence of a counterfeit gospel is, "I'm right and everyone else is wrong", only God can forgive sins and you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, how hypocritical can any one person be.

Turn back to the One and only True God
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,757
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113
Your anger at me for letting God's Word expose these doctrines is as natural as anger itself. Jesus said it would be like this. I don't hold your anger against you.
Go take your self righteous ego somewhere else.

I'm angry at you because of your condoning attitude.
You say you wish to discuss but you have no intent to do so and when you do get a response you use it to put the person down and attack them without actually trying to see what they are saying.

That's why up until today I stopped responding to you.

But as from now no longer.

Anyway I forgive your condoning, sanctimonious, egotistical, put down, I'm better than you, your pretty boy Jesus the fake one attitude.

I will not hold it against you.
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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LOL
Do what?

The Anointing of the spirit gives us knowledge, As the Holy Spirit is poured out on us and he opens our minds to Gods truth. Baptism and laying on of hands has nothign to do with this.
EG do you have a Bible? DO YOU EVER READ IT AT ALL? The NT is full of babtism and also the laying on of hands/ How can you deny this one?

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! How will you twist this one? Going to be interesting to see that LOL!

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. D


I have no idea how anyone who has ever looked at these words can deny them. Whether you like it or not and whether you acknowledge it or not this is Gods instructions! He has laws which I know kills you and if you don't follow them you are not one of His people - hopefully someday you will be. To receive God's HS you have to be baptized and laying on of hands afterward! There is no" born again and I am saved "stuff here but a laid out Way OF Life.
Doctrine of Repentance, Faith, Baptism, laying on of hands ,Ressurections, and Eternal Judgment.
This was the Apostlic Church's doctrines and still are God's true Church's today !
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,757
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EG do you have a Bible? DO YOU EVER READ IT AT ALL? The NT is full of babtism and also the laying on of hands/ How can you deny this one?
Come on.
Of course he has a Bible.
The same one as you.
And reads it.

He reads commentary as you probably do along with Bible study notes.

There was no need for what you said
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
42
28
Do what?

The Anointing of the spirit gives us knowledge, As the Holy Spirit is poured out on us and he opens our minds to Gods truth. Baptism and laying on of hands has nothign to do with this.
LOL EG do you have a Bible, Do you ever read it? How can you deny this?

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


The early Church, The Apostolic Church had doctrines God set for them and like it or not those are still binding today on a Christian, none of this "born again stuff" but set doctrines made to be followed by the true Church. They still are today!

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
T
hose who deny or refuse to follow those laws of God for the NT Church are not forgiven and not given the HS
Like it or not there is a set Way of Life for God's people and they follow it!


Going to be interesting to see how you twist these scriptures LOL!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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, Oh yes there was and is, the man denies every plain scripture there is and twists them to his heart's content. If he could admit a scripture means what it says it does that would really be refreshing but haven't seen one yet (that I can remember anyway)