Not By Works

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Pisteuo

Guest
You are most correct in what you believe dear and I will agree with you also that you are doing extremely well in your walk. I don't know anything about Greek or Hebrew either but I do thank God that I can understand the Word in the English language and with His grace apply what I learn in my own walk. Your posts are always an inspiration to me and I appreciate the person you are in Jesus Christ very much.
Christianity is not a destination , it's a journey that goes beyond here and today . We all start our journey in different places and in different circumstances . But God never changes , He doesn't change " His ways " because something couldnt be translated correctly .

My desire and purpose is just to point out this truth about God , His word , Faith and faithing , and the Salvation process . Shining light on this mistranslation could be just a single post , or for others , I could go into extreme detail as I've been learning about this for over 30 years . It all depends on how honest people can be with themselves .

That's my desire . God's desire might be more simple , to just get the truth out there to see what the called out ones will do with it .
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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just for example...

what I actually wrote, that dude is actually quoting, is that sin was in the world long before the Law ((in context of my original post, neatly not quoted so no one can find it and see what was being discussed, clearly with reference to the law of Moses)). I explicitly said that.

hyperbolicly I asked how Satan could be said to have sinned while Moses was still a baby, if sin didn't exist until Sinai?

what dude reads from this is that I said no one knew sin until Moses gave the law, and that Satan didn't even sin until then.

dude.
that is exactly the absurdity that I was pointing out about dudes own position that without the law sin doesn't exist.

it is exactly the opposite of what I said about sin!



perhaps I was wrong to say he is a slanderer?
no - he still slanders. he just spent a long time slandering me. when he is supposed to be studying the Bible he's instead directly attacking a person.
but perhaps he has no idea he is being slanderous because he is so woefully lacking in understanding?


if so my apologies dude. I have been assuming all this time you were a moderately intelligent person.
I'm not attacking you Post, I am exposing scriptural flaws in the preaching you further.

"It is false to say there is no sin without the law. The law came long after sin entered the world. What scripture says is the law brings knowledge of sin, and that without it there is no transgression of it - not that there's no sin without it. How did Satan sin before Moses was even placed in the river, in a basket?"

God's Laws that the entire Law and Prophets hang on were given to His people in the beginning as it is written. But His people forgot them in the World.

23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


God gave them again, His Commandments and His Laws He gave to Abraham, but ADDED to His Covenant with Abraham another "law" which entailed for the Levites specific sacrificial "works of the Law" for the remission of sins until the Seed should come. This was the covenant God made with Israel that He promised to change in Jeremiah 31 and other places. Not the Covenant He made with Abraham and Abraham's children.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) WHAT LAW? The Priesthood only? Sacrificial works only? Is God only the God of the Jews? Or is He also the God of Abraham who was justified "without Levi".

I hope you will not continue to deflect, refuse to engage, and defend, at all costs, your religion. That is truly the proven custom of religious man through out the Bible. But even if you do, this will have no bearing on the fact that the Law the Jews were pushing was not that which we heard from the beginning, rather, the "LAW of Works" given to the Levites until the seed should come.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
See, that's the problem with you Cainologists....you assume that because we believe in the correct message of salvation that we do nothing after salvation....on top of that you conflate, mix and blend salvation into a false gospel that leads to hell....I.E. the MANY GROUPING that believes they KNOW THE LORD like yourself and then BELIEVE part of your right to enter is based upon all the GOOD WORKS you have done in his name....tragic truth...your gospel is false, double cursed and has no power to save anyone....ALL WHO BELIEVE IT are fools and bewitched.....wrap your head around the truth that faith, by itself is what SAVES A MAN ETERNALLY....anything and everything that may be produced after one has been born again eternally from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED AND THE FREE IRREVOCABLE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE is produced by CHRIST THROUGH US.....and like normal...I fully expect you to ride your false teaching straight to the smoking pit...!!!

Actually trust Jesus by faith before it is too late argumore....!!


it is heartbreaking to see how many are trying to take away from the sacrifice of Jesus by pretending they can aid in their own salvation..... all the while falsely accusing Gods children
 
Dec 12, 2013
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it is heartbreaking to see how many are trying to take away from the sacrifice of Jesus by pretending they can aid in their own salvation..... all the while falsely accusing Gods children
I honestly do not understand how anyone with eyes and a brain still functioning can read scripture in context and then say works are necessary to be saved and or maintain salvation......when phrases such as the following are used in context with salvation and how it is gained....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done...

...and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Whosoever believes in him....

....justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

He that believes is not condemned......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

And on, and on, and on.....and then YANK a few verses out of context like JAMES to peddle a false gospel while pitting scripture against scripture......it cannot be both and the above would not be in the bible if a works based salvation was required!!!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
35,025
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Tennessee
Christianity is not a destination , it's a journey that goes beyond here and today . We all start our journey in different places and in different circumstances . But God never changes , He doesn't change " His ways " because something couldnt be translated correctly .

My desire and purpose is just to point out this truth about God , His word , Faith and faithing , and the Salvation process . Shining light on this mistranslation could be just a single post , or for others , I could go into extreme detail as I've been learning about this for over 30 years . It all depends on how honest people can be with themselves .

That's my desire . God's desire might be more simple , to just get the truth out there to see what the called out ones will do with it .
There are those that could simply use a word of encouragement occasionally and not a lengthy explanation on why their perceived thought process on a spiritual matter is incorrect. It really doesn't benefit a hurting person to have salt thrown on an open wound. What is more important, to actually help someone who may be hurting inside or to prove oneself correct on a particular spiritual point?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
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There are those that could simply use a word of encouragement occasionally and not a lengthy explanation on why their perceived thought process on a spiritual matter is incorrect. It really doesn't benefit a hurting person to have salt thrown on an open wound. What is more important, to actually help someone who may be hurting inside or to prove oneself correct on a particular spiritual point?
Tell you a humerous story about myself.....When I was in Marine Boot Camp in the MCRD in San Diego we were doing pft and I had just done 2 sets of 20 back to back pull ups and had blistered and ripped all of the callouses off of my hands.....we then ran a 6 mile run on the beach it "utes and boots"......man.....the salt water burned the crap out of my hands, but guess what.....in 2 days they were healed............ ;)
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I honestly do not understand how anyone with eyes and a brain still functioning can read scripture in context and then say works are necessary to be saved and or maintain salvation......when phrases such as the following are used in context with salvation and how it is gained....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done...

...and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Whosoever believes in him....

....justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

He that believes is not condemned......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

And on, and on, and on.....and then YANK a few verses out of context like JAMES to peddle a false gospel while pitting scripture against scripture......it cannot be both and the above would not be in the bible if a works based salvation was required!!!

we could go back to cain offering the fruits of his labor

or abel with the lambs sacrifice

we could go to the differences between a gift a prize/reward and earnings


we can (as many of my lovely brothers and sisters have done for years)

break down every verse bit by bit out of love and patience trying to explain colors to the blind



but unless someone is willing to let go of their false understandings

they can look at blue, tell you its red

and believe it in their heart

and call you ignorant for not seeing what they see thinking they are doing you a favor


........ Gods word proves without a shadow of a doubt the truth for those with eyes to see


and im grateful for my brothers and sisters here to share the good news of the gospel in the face of wolves

to try and light the path for the lost
and
to encourage and build up sapplings

i pray some of these new folk (assuming they are actually new)

will in time have new eyes and a new heart and a new mind ready to fight for the truth... instead of fight against it
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
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we could go back to cain offering the fruits of his labor

or abel with the lambs sacrifice

we could go to the differences between a gift a prize/reward and earnings


we can (as many of my lovely brothers and sisters have done for years)

break down every verse bit by bit out of love and patience trying to explain colors to the blind



but unless someone is willing to let go of their false understandings

they can look at blue, tell you its red

and believe it in their heart

and call you ignorant for not seeing what they see thinking they are doing you a favor


........ Gods word proves without a shadow of a doubt the truth for those with eyes to see


and im grateful for my brothers and sisters here to share the good news of the gospel in the face of wolves

to try and light the path for the lost
and
to encourage and build up sapplings

i pray some of these new folk (assuming they are actually new)

will in time have new eyes and a new heart and a new mind ready to fight for the truth... instead of fight against it
Amen brother......hahhaha we been there and done that hey mate hahah
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
There are those that could simply use a word of encouragement occasionally and not a lengthy explanation on why their perceived thought process on a spiritual matter is incorrect. It really doesn't benefit a hurting person to have salt thrown on an open wound. What is more important, to actually help someone who may be hurting inside or to prove oneself correct on a particular spiritual point?
What does this have to do with the topic at hand ?

The problem , is you don't see what I'm sharing as something encouraging ! What is greater in this world than having a real connection with our creator ?

That's not going to happen by " believing " !
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
35,025
12,571
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Tennessee
Tell you a humerous story about me...When I was in Marine Boot Camp in the MCRD in San Diego we were doing pft and I had just done 2 sets of 20 back to back pull ups and had blistered and ripped all of the callouses off of my hands.....we then ran a 6 mile run on the beach it "utes and boots"......man.....the salt water burned the crap out of my hands, but guess what.....in 2 days they were healed............ ;)
Yeah, I had a jolly good time in boot camp too at Ft. Jackson, SC at the age of 23. I will say though that Marine Corp boot camp is more strenuous than the Army. I also was in the Air Force and the boot camp at Lackland AFB, TX at the age of 17 was a lot more mental than physical. It was an 'in your face' type of experience and was almost traumatic. Constant harassment in an attempt to break your spirit. I am sure that you can relate to that based on your own military training experience.

However, serving in the US Armed Forces was quite an adventure and I became a more disciplined and determined man because having endured it. The US Military is the only government organization that I sincerely respect and offer a sincere thank you to all of those brave men and women that have served and are still protecting the US Constitution today against all enemies foreign and domestic.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What does this have to do with the topic at hand ?

The problem , is you don't see what I'm sharing as something encouraging ! What is greater in this world than having a real connection with our creator ?

That's not going to happen by " believing " !
Obviously not to the bolded......and the last line is not of God.....tells all who really leads you.......!!!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
35,025
12,571
113
66
Tennessee
What does this have to do with the topic at hand ?

The problem , is you don't see what I'm sharing as something encouraging ! What is greater in this world than having a real connection with our creator ?

That's not going to happen by " believing " !
It would serve no purpose to quote scripture to a person that is starving or drowning but rather would harm them even further. To save a person bleeding to death you must first cauterize the wound. I certainly agree with you that having a real connection with our Creator is probably the greatest thing but unfortunately, based on the countless thousands of posts in this thread there seems to be a bit of disagreement on how to establish such a connection in a way that you can thrive spiritually. Personally, speaking for myself, I would rather a person become more spiritually joyful based on something that I said or did for them than to be proven to be correct on even the most minute spiritual point.
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
It would serve no purpose to quote scripture to a person that is starving or drowning but rather would harm them even further. To save a person bleeding to death you must first cauterize the wound. I certainly agree with you that having a real connection with our Creator is probably the greatest thing but unfortunately, based on the countless thousands of posts in this thread there seems to be a bit of disagreement on how to establish such a connection in a way that you can thrive spiritually. Personally, speaking for myself, I would rather a person become more spiritually joyful based on something that I said or did for them than to be proven to be correct on even the most minute spiritual point.
My apologies for not throwing the life preserver in a way that's acceptable to .
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
35,025
12,571
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My apologies for not throwing the life preserver in a way that's acceptable to .
No need to apologize to me sir, but you may consider apologizing to Rosemary for your insensitive treatment. Don't beat up yourself about it as I am sure that you meant well. In my years on this site I have had more than my share of misguided posts too. I probably average at least one apology a month to someone that I may have offended or was insensitive to. either purposely or unintentional. We are only human after all trying to do our best based on our personal level of understanding and spiritual growth, with to those that God has sent our way. Carry on.
 
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J70x7

Guest
See, that's the problem with you Cainologists....you assume that because we believe in the correct message of salvation that we do nothing after salvation....on top of that you conflate, mix and blend salvation into a false gospel that leads to hell....I.E. the MANY GROUPING that believes they KNOW THE LORD like yourself and then BELIEVE part of your right to enter is based upon all the GOOD WORKS you have done in his name....tragic truth...your gospel is false, double cursed and has no power to save anyone....ALL WHO BELIEVE IT are fools and bewitched.....wrap your head around the truth that faith, by itself is what SAVES A MAN ETERNALLY....anything and everything that may be produced after one has been born again eternally from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED AND THE FREE IRREVOCABLE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE is produced by CHRIST THROUGH US.....and like normal...I fully expect you to ride your false teaching straight to the smoking pit...!!!

Actually trust Jesus by faith before it is too late argumore....!!
183444.jpg If someone up until the time of their death knowingly denies correct doctrine Christ has revealed, do they go to hell?
 
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J70x7

Guest
it is heartbreaking to see how many are trying to take away from the sacrifice of Jesus by pretending they can aid in their own salvation..... all the while falsely accusing Gods children
If someone up until the time of their death knowingly denies correct doctrine Christ has revealed, do they go to hell?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113
it is heartbreaking to see how many are trying to take away from the sacrifice of Jesus by pretending they can aid in their own salvation..... all the while falsely accusing Gods children

I even tried to tell at least two of them, "Why do you want to Rob JESUS of the GLORY that SOLELY belongs to HIM?"


1 Corinthians 7:23 (TLB)
23 You have been bought and paid for by Christ, so you belong to him—be free now from all these earthly prides and fears.
 
J

J70x7

Guest
I even tried to tell at least two of them, "Why do you want to Rob JESUS of the GLORY that SOLELY belongs to HIM?"


1 Corinthians 7:23 (TLB)
23 You have been bought and paid for by Christ, so you belong to him—be free now from all these earthly prides and fears.
If someone up until the time of their death knowingly denies correct doctrine Christ has revealed, do they go to hell?