Not By Works
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I NEVER said I believe your first sentence!
If a person has saving faith and does his best to keep God's commandments and follow the Lord Jesus, he WILL be saved.
Also, if you've noticed, I don't like using the word hell.
I like to concentrate on the positive and do my best to warn people to obey God so they could end up with Him. (obey Him by following the Holy Spirit---not by doing works of the law).
If a person has saving faith and does his best to keep God's commandments and follow the Lord Jesus, he WILL be saved.
Also, if you've noticed, I don't like using the word hell.
I like to concentrate on the positive and do my best to warn people to obey God so they could end up with Him. (obey Him by following the Holy Spirit---not by doing works of the law).
Sorry, they do not contradict and Fran, the confusion is on your part......it cannot be both when One clearly states before GOD a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS of the law! JAMES does not teach that works JUSTIFIES BEFORE GOD.....regardless of your inability to distinguish between the two lines of thought....
Romans -->Before God
James -->The above seen by men dia works
Wake up and come on line with the truth Fran...you could be a great witness if you would but surrender to the TRUTH!
Romans -->Before God
James -->The above seen by men dia works
Wake up and come on line with the truth Fran...you could be a great witness if you would but surrender to the TRUTH!
Sorry but I have to say we do not have to obey but I agree we want to obey.
But it must be out of love.
Although I will say that at times God has bought me to a place and asked me to do something and I refused. But he kept pressing the point and I submitted to his will.
Sometimes it followed through and other times not so.
God asked me to offer to pray for a man whose wife was in hospice.
They had a little shop at the end of our road.
So I am parked up and God asked me to do this.
I say no, he says yes.
I'm sat in the car having argument God.
Goodness knows what people in the carpark may have seen.
My arms flailing all over the place, head buried in my hands.
So I say "Yes ok I'll do it but make sure no one else is in the shop"
Anyway I got there.
No one else in the shop.
I pluck up the courage and ask "can I go and pray for your wife?
He said "No because she would tell you, go stick your Christianity up your ***** ass because your God is ******
So I did not want to obedient but I submitted.
Not to be saved but because I submitted to the will of our father
But it must be out of love.
Although I will say that at times God has bought me to a place and asked me to do something and I refused. But he kept pressing the point and I submitted to his will.
Sometimes it followed through and other times not so.
God asked me to offer to pray for a man whose wife was in hospice.
They had a little shop at the end of our road.
So I am parked up and God asked me to do this.
I say no, he says yes.
I'm sat in the car having argument God.
Goodness knows what people in the carpark may have seen.
My arms flailing all over the place, head buried in my hands.
So I say "Yes ok I'll do it but make sure no one else is in the shop"
Anyway I got there.
No one else in the shop.
I pluck up the courage and ask "can I go and pray for your wife?
He said "No because she would tell you, go stick your Christianity up your ***** ass because your God is ******
So I did not want to obedient but I submitted.
Not to be saved but because I submitted to the will of our father
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I agree that every effort should be made to understand another member.
Thanks for clarifying.
As to Colossians 2:20-23
AGREED.
Paul was discussing the secular rituals that were being accepted by the Colossians and mixing them up with Christianity. Thankfully, we are free from any such traditions.
Thanks for clarifying.
As to Colossians 2:20-23
AGREED.
Paul was discussing the secular rituals that were being accepted by the Colossians and mixing them up with Christianity. Thankfully, we are free from any such traditions.
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...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26
...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20
...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23
...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29
Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20
...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23
...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29
Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
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So again, It is not up to God or his power to save you, it is up to you to do your best.?
News flash, Your best is not good enough..If it was, we could fulfill the law ourselves and jesus would never have had to come.
So you would rather ignore the truth of where those people who reject the gospel will go. is this because your afraid you may still end there? I mean think about it, how cna you know you will continue your best, and not turn later in life?
Your hope is based on your ability.
My hope is based on God. I am not afraid of talkin gbaout hell. because I know it is not where I will be..
News flash, Your best is not good enough..If it was, we could fulfill the law ourselves and jesus would never have had to come.
So you would rather ignore the truth of where those people who reject the gospel will go. is this because your afraid you may still end there? I mean think about it, how cna you know you will continue your best, and not turn later in life?
Your hope is based on your ability.
My hope is based on God. I am not afraid of talkin gbaout hell. because I know it is not where I will be..
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I wold like to say that I have found Calvin's commentaries to be very good.
unfortunately, his end game is not what I glean from the scriptures.
How anyone could believe in calvinism is a mystery to me...
Also, there are some persons in the bible that ARE elected, in the sense of chosen. Sometimes elected does not mean chosen...but anyway -
for instance Mary. Does Luke 1:31 sound like a request? Not to me.
And others...like Judas, Pharaoh . God CAN do whatever He wants!!!
He IS sovereign and will work all to His will.
However, I DO believe the bible teaches that He gives to all men the opportunity to be saved and not be condemned to hell through no fault of their own.
unfortunately, his end game is not what I glean from the scriptures.
How anyone could believe in calvinism is a mystery to me...
Also, there are some persons in the bible that ARE elected, in the sense of chosen. Sometimes elected does not mean chosen...but anyway -
for instance Mary. Does Luke 1:31 sound like a request? Not to me.
And others...like Judas, Pharaoh . God CAN do whatever He wants!!!
He IS sovereign and will work all to His will.
However, I DO believe the bible teaches that He gives to all men the opportunity to be saved and not be condemned to hell through no fault of their own.
Rrad chapter 3.....No one keeps it or has and ALL THE WORD HAS BECOME GUILTY WITH MOUTHS shut because NO ONE KEEPS THAT WHICH CONDEMNS........
You guys take the cake for ignorance or willful deception....you quote chapter 2 whichblays the foundation for chapter 3 and then conviently leave off chapter three.....
Chapter 2 Keep the law to be justified before God
Chapter 3 Guess what...no one can do chapter 2 because we are ALL GUILTY ALREADY
Therefore we CONCLUDE a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS of the law...
You guys sink to the lowest level of deception when it comes to the word and make no mistake, you all will pay the ultimate, eternal price if you keep conflating the word into that whichbit does not teach!
You guys take the cake for ignorance or willful deception....you quote chapter 2 whichblays the foundation for chapter 3 and then conviently leave off chapter three.....
Chapter 2 Keep the law to be justified before God
Chapter 3 Guess what...no one can do chapter 2 because we are ALL GUILTY ALREADY
Therefore we CONCLUDE a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS of the law...
You guys sink to the lowest level of deception when it comes to the word and make no mistake, you all will pay the ultimate, eternal price if you keep conflating the word into that whichbit does not teach!
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... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.2 Thessalonians 1:8-11g
Who are those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?
...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4
...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16
...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrathcomes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6
Who are those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?
...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4
...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16
...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrathcomes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6
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But you just said they were saved by law
[QUOTE="GodsGrace101, post: 3792472, member: 274948"
The law, the Mosaic Covenant, said that Israel had to obey God and follow the commandments in order to be saved.
.[/QUOTE]
So yeah, End of story, You can not even keep your story straight you contraidct yourself, becaue your faith can noto stand (or I should say lack of faith)
I guess I will wait for you to excuse your words so they they do nto contradict Like you excuse your sin by saying YOUR SIN is not enough to cause you to lose salvation.
[QUOTE="GodsGrace101, post: 3792472, member: 274948"
The law, the Mosaic Covenant, said that Israel had to obey God and follow the commandments in order to be saved.
.[/QUOTE]
So yeah, End of story, You can not even keep your story straight you contraidct yourself, becaue your faith can noto stand (or I should say lack of faith)
I guess I will wait for you to excuse your words so they they do nto contradict Like you excuse your sin by saying YOUR SIN is not enough to cause you to lose salvation.
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D,
I'm sure you know that not everything could be received from the bible alone.
I give you the Trinity. How many do you suppose would ever come up with that theology if it were not for bijblical scholars, theologians, etc. ?
Not many.
So why don't we look to these men who studied Justification and Sanctification because, as I see you know, the terms were sometimes used interchangeably in the N.T. Paul was not very careful with his words because he didn't know Dcon would be born one fine day.
Here is a good explanation:
Christ has won both justification and sanctification for His people. Both graces are the concern of faith in Jesus Christ, but in different ways. In justification, our faith results in our being forgiven, accepted, and accounted righteous in God’s sight.
In sanctification, that same faith actively and eagerly takes up all the commands that Christ has given the believer. We dare not separate or conflate justification and sanctification. We do distinguish them. And, in both graces, we enter into the richness and joy of communion with Christ through faith in Him.
source: https://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-are-justification-and-sanctification/
I'm sure you know that not everything could be received from the bible alone.
I give you the Trinity. How many do you suppose would ever come up with that theology if it were not for bijblical scholars, theologians, etc. ?
Not many.
So why don't we look to these men who studied Justification and Sanctification because, as I see you know, the terms were sometimes used interchangeably in the N.T. Paul was not very careful with his words because he didn't know Dcon would be born one fine day.
Here is a good explanation:
Christ has won both justification and sanctification for His people. Both graces are the concern of faith in Jesus Christ, but in different ways. In justification, our faith results in our being forgiven, accepted, and accounted righteous in God’s sight.
In sanctification, that same faith actively and eagerly takes up all the commands that Christ has given the believer. We dare not separate or conflate justification and sanctification. We do distinguish them. And, in both graces, we enter into the richness and joy of communion with Christ through faith in Him.
source: https://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-are-justification-and-sanctification/
E
Lol
People could read the OT and find the trinity
They could know of YHWH (Pre-incarnate Jesus)
They could know of the ultimate God or father (As jesus said, no one has seen the father, yet Jesus was seen as the angel of God,) and the HS was prayed for. In fact, David as you said prayed that God would not remeve the HS from him
What a joke..
As for santification, There are two types
Positional (we have been sanctified)
Conditional (we are being sanctified)
Maybe if you leaned the difference, you would finally see the gospel
People could read the OT and find the trinity
They could know of YHWH (Pre-incarnate Jesus)
They could know of the ultimate God or father (As jesus said, no one has seen the father, yet Jesus was seen as the angel of God,) and the HS was prayed for. In fact, David as you said prayed that God would not remeve the HS from him
What a joke..
As for santification, There are two types
Positional (we have been sanctified)
Conditional (we are being sanctified)
Maybe if you leaned the difference, you would finally see the gospel
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