Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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That is why I said I know we disagree.....and no offence but your analogy leave no room for spiritually immature believers and or worldly believers which is why I disagree....

They with JOY received the word....the word RECEIVED means to take to oneself....

Receive with meekness the engrafted word

To them that RECIEVE HIM....

It is a completed action

dechomai: to receive
Original Word: δέχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dechomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dekh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to receive
Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.
HELPS Word-studies
1209 déxomai – properly, to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation (1 Thes 2:13) and thoughts (Eph 6:17).
Yeah i think it does.

If one produces no fruit. I do not believe they are saved.

A legslist recieves the word, but they will never produce fruit, because they have no faith.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Hi Fran, my advice to you is sharpen your "interpretation skills"; why?, nobody likes a dull knife in the kitchen when you're cooking a boneless rib roast for you family, same is true here. There are "Rules of Interpretation." and you truly need more practice applying those rules, like it or not.

And please give a close listen to those who care about you on this thread they are really trying to help you.

Scripture harmonizes with scripture period.

There are no contradictions in these two verses.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that 'I shall lose none of all those he has given Me', but raise them up at the last day.

John 15:6
6)
If anyone does not abide in Me he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "
I truly appreciate your concern.
I also am here to try to help others understand the N.T. without adding to it or detracting from it.
As you know, John did warn us about adding or taking away when he was on the isle of Patmos.

Now, as you understand John 6:39 and John 15:6, unfortunately, I DO see a contradiction.
Would you be able to explain to me how it is NOT a contradiction?

It would also be nice to know what version of the bible you're using since John 6:39 seems to me to be incorrectly translated.

I'll be back tomorrow.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Yeah i think it does.

If one produces no fruit. I do not believe they are saved.

A legslist recieves the word, but they will never produce fruit, because they have no faith.
A legalistic believes he is saved by works.
I think you have it backwards...
Whether he does works or not makes no difference unless he is a born again believer.

Maybe I misunderstood you. Not sure.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I think you must be aware how charismatic Jesus must have been.
Besides the fact that He was 100% God (and 100% man).
Jesus came to save sinners....He was supposed to hang out with them.

If WE hang out with sinners....we might become like them.
(not necessarily).
How can we win the lost if we do not hang out with them? Seperation will never win the lost, one does not have to live like them to hang out with them.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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It is the work of God we believe, faith is not a work.

But a person who got saved and got baptised, they have a work.
I never said faith was a work.....I rightfully quoted that it is the work of the Heavenly FATHER (God) and Jesus was clear in what he said.....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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How can we win the lost if we do not hang out with them? Seperation will never win the lost, one does not have to live like them to hang out with them.
Did I say we should be separated from them?
Some of my friends are sinners. I mean sinners....You know.

Also we'd have to get into the term "hang out".
I know these sinners...but I don't hang out with them.
Why?
Because they do things I don't care to do.

Nuff said.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Good night y'all from sunny Italy.
(in the summer anyway)
It's been dandy.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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The analogy is that of a garden with one planting seed.....or I will use a food plot for deer....I broadcast seed by hand every time I do a food plot.....both will produce based upon soil preparation, moisture, fertilizer and how well we keep the weeds down....

Weeds (worldliness) will choke the plants (born again spirit) and in so doing keep the fruit production down to a mimimum....or the fruit will be stunted in growth because the weeds (worldliness) will rob the plants (born again spirit) of nutrients, moisture etc. which resulted in stunted growth and or productuon of fruit.
i see. So the weeds rob the plants of nutrients but there is stilll a little plant meaning born again spirit. Gotcha<! Thanks for explaining
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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LOL
I don't have a system!

I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...

1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.

As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.

I know whom I have believed....
:)
Can the branch grow legs and choose to leave the vine....No

I abide and keep myself saved by my own effort......reads like works salvation to me
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I don't disagree.
Jesus came to change us from the inside out.
The Pharisees, for example, were all show. But their inside was rotten.
Jesus wanted us to be whole on the inside and then it would also show on the outside but it would be honest.

About the Law,,,yes, It's not God's desire that we follow the law and be "unborn" on the inside.
However, Jesus did say that He came not to abolish the Law.

Maybe we need both?
Maybe the law is easy to follow because of our love for Jesus?
Maybe this is the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?
Did Jesus come to make us whole on the inside? Completely whole?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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BUT
Our ongoing S has no bearing on our J ???
I specified what I meant by that -- "That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ."

Reason this out....
Without J there is no S.
and,,,without S there is no J!
If we don't continue on the road toward S, HOW could we possibly remain J ??
Who said anything about not continuing on the road of ongoing sanctification?

All Paul did was to exhort us to behave and be nice and do certain things and not do certain things.
Surely, if it were not so important, he wouldn't have spent so much time trying to teach us.
Of course obedience is important along with ongoing sanctification, which is what we are saved FOR. Yet we could never be obedience enough to earn our salvation and we will not reach entire sanctification in this lifetime, but we will when we receive our glorified bodies.


IF we stop believing in the gospel and stop pursuing our S,,,we also lose our J.
Show me where the Bible says, "lose justification" or " lose salvation." :unsure:


1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

It's natural for Paul to speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact they may have believed in vain - "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Oh now BELIEVING is a work?
Where will it all end???
:eek:[/QUOTE}}

Someone already posted the answer. You must of missed it.


Joh 6:28 They say to him, What shall we do that we may work the works of Aloha?

Joh 6:29 Jeshu answered and said to them, This is the work of Aloha, that you believe in Him whom he hath sent. Etheridge again. But it says the same in all translations.