Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I truly appreciate your concern.
I also am here to try to help others understand the N.T. without adding to it or detracting from it.
As you know, John did warn us about adding or taking away when he was on the isle of Patmos.
Now, as you understand John 6:39 and John 15:6, unfortunately, I DO see a contradiction.
Would you be able to explain to me how it is NOT a contradiction?
It would also be nice to know what version of the bible you're using since John 6:39 seems to me to be incorrectly translated.
I'll be back tomorrow.
I also am here to try to help others understand the N.T. without adding to it or detracting from it.
As you know, John did warn us about adding or taking away when he was on the isle of Patmos.
Now, as you understand John 6:39 and John 15:6, unfortunately, I DO see a contradiction.
Would you be able to explain to me how it is NOT a contradiction?
It would also be nice to know what version of the bible you're using since John 6:39 seems to me to be incorrectly translated.
I'll be back tomorrow.
U
LOL
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
I abide and keep myself saved by my own effort......reads like works salvation to me
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I specified what I meant by that -- "That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ."
Who said anything about not continuing on the road of ongoing sanctification?
Of course obedience is important along with ongoing sanctification, which is what we are saved FOR. Yet we could never be obedience enough to earn our salvation and we will not reach entire sanctification in this lifetime, but we will when we receive our glorified bodies.
Show me where the Bible says, "lose justification" or " lose salvation."
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
It's natural for Paul to speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact they may have believed in vain - "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
Who said anything about not continuing on the road of ongoing sanctification?
Of course obedience is important along with ongoing sanctification, which is what we are saved FOR. Yet we could never be obedience enough to earn our salvation and we will not reach entire sanctification in this lifetime, but we will when we receive our glorified bodies.
Show me where the Bible says, "lose justification" or " lose salvation."
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
It's natural for Paul to speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact they may have believed in vain - "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
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Oh now BELIEVING is a work?
Where will it all end???
[/QUOTE}}
Someone already posted the answer. You must of missed it.
Joh 6:28 They say to him, What shall we do that we may work the works of Aloha?
Joh 6:29 Jeshu answered and said to them, This is the work of Aloha, that you believe in Him whom he hath sent. Etheridge again. But it says the same in all translations.
Where will it all end???
[/QUOTE}}Someone already posted the answer. You must of missed it.
Joh 6:28 They say to him, What shall we do that we may work the works of Aloha?
Joh 6:29 Jeshu answered and said to them, This is the work of Aloha, that you believe in Him whom he hath sent. Etheridge again. But it says the same in all translations.
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