Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,743
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I am fairly confident that any good work we may do is the result of Christ doing it through us as a living sacrifice and exactly why he gets all the glory<----Apart from me you can do NOTHING....so....who is it that is doing the work...........?

watch em squirm.........

AMEN ! THAT is exactly why I have asked a few people, "Why do you want to rob the Glory from Jesus Christ?" They acted like they did not understand the question.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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In a deeper sense, His death on the cross is our source of perfect righteousness, even trumping our 'daily' righteousness...

Rom 3:21-26
(21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
(22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(26) It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 5:18-19
(18) Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
(19) For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Hi crossnote, I agree 100 percent with you; Jesus is our source of righteousness the imputed righteousness of Christ that is only found "through faith in Christ."

Philippians 3:9
9) "and be found in him, 'not having a righteousness of my own' that comes from the law, but that which is
"through faith in Christ"--the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith."
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

...The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.” Deuteronomy 6:24-25

...Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. Ephesians 2:11-22

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that IN HIM WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit can be in us to empower and enable us to meet the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law.

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8

If someone is being led by the Spirit, he will not say that works done by those who teaches obedience to God have no bearing unto salvation and that they are just filthy rags.

...“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, WHATEVER YOU DID FOR ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE BROTHERS OF MINE, YOU DID FOR ME.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘DEPART FROM ME, you who are cursed, INTO THE ETERNAL FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:40-41

It is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit to call the works He is doing in a believer, the little ones who believe in Him, as filthy rags and has no bearing unto salvation.

Those who teach obedience to God are led by the Spirit since no one without the Spirit will teach obedience to God because there is no Holy Spirit in them that is leading them to obey, and teach obedience to God, to other people.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, the prophets, apostles, disciples and all the Holy men of God obey and teach obedience to God? YES

..If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

DO NOT just listen and CLAIM and then BOAST THAT you are SAVED and others are not. Jesus will save His BODY who are eagerly awaiting a Savior from heaven. It is not a PERSONAL SALVATION but He will SAVE HIS BODY which is the Church.(Ephesians 5:23)

So if you are not IN HIM because you have RUN AHEAD and claimed victory without the HEAD who is the Lord Jesus Christ, THINK IT OVER.

...ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. ONLY LET US LIVE UP TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED. Philippians 3:12-16

...These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US (A NEW CREATION ÌN CHRIST CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS- Ephesians 2:10-22) would they be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39-40
Great post!!

I see that some persons on this thread are confused to the point of even contradicting their own statements.

You post very clear scripture that is simple and easy to understand.
Those who do not agree with you apparently do not agree with the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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My bible states that the righteousness of Christ is already put to our account through faith.............

Therefore we conclude <----Paul, who was taught by direct revelation and inspired concluded that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law....

Justified is a legal term and means rendered INNOCENT.....if ONE is INNOCENT they are NOT guilty....the LAW is for the lawless and it's purpose is to condemn and POINT to the righteousness of Christ which is imputed by FAITH......
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
...For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be A CHANGE OF THE LAW. Hebrews 7:12

...CARRY EACH OTHER'S BURDENS, and in this way YOU WILL FULFILL THE LAW OF CHRIST. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load. Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
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30 What can we say, then? Gentiles, who were not pursuing righteousness, have attained righteousness, a righteousness that comes through faith.

31 But Israel, who pursued righteousness based on the Law, did not achieve the Law.

32 Why not? Because they did not pursue it on the basis of faith, but as if it were based on achievements. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble.

33 As it is written, "Look! I am placing a stone in Zion over which people will stumble—a large rock that will make them fall—and the one who believes in him will never be ashamed."
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
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12 It's not that I have already reached this goal or have already become perfect. But I keep pursuing it, hoping somehow to embrace it just as I have been embraced by the Messiah Jesus.

13 Brothers, I do not consider myself to have embraced it yet. But this one thing I do: Forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,

14 I keep pursuing the goal to win the prize of God's heavenly call in the Messiah Jesus.


The goal?


9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but one that comes through the faithfulness of the Messiah, the righteousness that comes from God and that depends on faith.

10 I want to know the Messiah—what his resurrection power is like and what it means to share in his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,

11 though I hope to experience the resurrection from the dead.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,743
3,978
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12 It's not that I have already reached this goal or have already become perfect. But I keep pursuing it, hoping somehow to embrace it just as I have been embraced by the Messiah Jesus.

13 Brothers, I do not consider myself to have embraced it yet. But this one thing I do: Forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,

14 I keep pursuing the goal to win the prize of God's heavenly call in the Messiah Jesus.


The goal?


9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but one that comes through the faithfulness of the Messiah, the righteousness that comes from God and that depends on faith.

10 I want to know the Messiah—what his resurrection power is like and what it means to share in his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,

11 though I hope to experience the resurrection from the dead.

Paul is NOT TALKING ABOUT SALVATION, he is talking about perfecting of body to MATCH Christs, and our human spirit. That Process is called Sanctification. IT TAKES A LIFE TIME, and even then we will not by like him until the resurrection.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
Paul is NOT TALKING ABOUT SALVATION, he is talking about perfecting of body to MATCH Christs, and our human spirit. That Process is called Sanctification. IT TAKES A LIFE TIME, and even then we will not by like him until the resurrection.
We differ in the understanding of this VCO. I won't argue this with you.

It's all of faith. Even moving in resurrection power. Not of human effort.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So far you have proven yourself to be overcritical, boastful, intolerant, and vindictive and you just cannot let something go.

Please stop insulting me. You don’t know anything about me.


If you want to discuss the merits of Calvinism from the scriptures then present your scripture for discussion.


Quoting John McArthur is not quoting scripture.


Calvinism is heresy plain and simple.


I’m sorry you don’t understand that.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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AMEN ! THAT is exactly why I have asked a few people, "Why do you want to rob the Glory from Jesus Christ?" They acted like they did not understand the question.
We obey the Gospel by the grace and power of the Spirit.


How is obeying the Gospel robbing God of glory.


Please explain.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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My bible states that the righteousness of Christ is already put to our account through faith.............

Therefore we conclude <----Paul, who was taught by direct revelation and inspired concluded that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law....

Justified is a legal term and means rendered INNOCENT.....if ONE is INNOCENT they are NOT guilty....the LAW is for the lawless and it's purpose is to condemn and POINT to the righteousness of Christ which is imputed by FAITH......

“By faith” means two things.


God spoke to someone, and they obeyed.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to complete it.



Otherwise faith is dead.



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26




JPT
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,357
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Paul is NOT TALKING ABOUT SALVATION, he is talking about perfecting of body to MATCH Christs, and our human spirit. That Process is called Sanctification. IT TAKES A LIFE TIME, and even then we will not by like him until the resurrection.
AMEN.....salvation, positionally sanctified and justified by faith are all a DONE DEAL the micro second one confesses saving faith in Christ...why is that so hard to grasp.............the ONLY thing that applies is the ONGOING process of the following...

a. Our transformation OUTWARDLY because of the inward change being grown and matured <--found in the process described in Romans 12:1-2

b. Our daily sanctification in the body which is a byproduct of "A" above............

It is not that difficult to grasp and generally speaking the ONLY ones what get this process worked up into a quagmire of misunderstanding and false gospels are the workers for, Cainologists and ALL that say we have a salvation that can be lost or that must be maintained by that which we do.......
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,492
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“By faith” means two things.


God spoke to someone, and they obeyed.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to complete it.



Otherwise faith is dead.



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26




JPT
what is the Gospel? believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

so to believe is to obey.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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what is the Gospel? believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

so to believe is to obey.
AMEN........

a. He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life
b. In the grace you are, having been saved OUT of FAITH...
c. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith and not by the deeds/works of the law
d. We have been sanctified positionally and eternally by faith in Christ
e. The righteousness of Christ has been IMPUTED to our account by FAITH

ALL of the above are instantly applied by faith the micro second one believes and they are eternally applied by the irrevocable gift of GOD.......HE SUSTAINS all of it by HIS power through the FAITH he begins, finishes and completes......!!!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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what is the Gospel? believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

so to believe is to obey.
Amen! In Romans 10:16, we read: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We can clearly see that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Refusing to obey the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
 
Oct 31, 2015
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what is the Gospel? believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

so to believe is to obey.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, is repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Believe on the Lord means to obey Him as Lord.


“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [fn]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
Luke 6:46



Your Lord is the one you obey.



That is how a person is saved, by confessing Jesus as Lord.


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10




JPT