Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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Justification by faith alone is believed by every church I could think of at this moment.
Sanctification is not by faith alone and requires some action on our part.
Except for the fact it is dual in application with one being applied to our eternal position in Christ, and the other is applied unto our transformation and daily walk.....<----the latter being subject to failures and successes.............
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Well.... if there is any credit to be had.... couldn't it be boiled down to being honest with ourself in regards to what He reveals to us... wether it is the gospel of Jesus through His Word or wether we should examine ourself because of the Holy Spirit and examine ourself according to His standards....
I can say that I was called from unbelief... and at first didn't want to believe... but because I believed I couldn't escape the fear..

I don't take credit for hearing...or believing... or seeking...

I don't deserve credit for being made new, or the desire to conform to Him

I do deserve the credit when I don't follow Him and stumble... that was my bad

but if there IS any credit I get for any step that I took.... I can't be the one to decide


because I am often reminded how much I do need Him for everything
I am fairly confident that any good work we may do is the result of Christ doing it through us as a living sacrifice and exactly why he gets all the glory<----Apart from me you can do NOTHING....so....who is it that is doing the work...........?

watch em squirm.........
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I am fairly confident that any good work we may do is the result of Christ doing it through us as a living sacrifice and exactly why he gets all the glory<----Apart from me you can do NOTHING....so....who is it that is doing the work...........?

watch em squirm.........
"A" to the MEN on that brother. All glory to the Name above all names, Jesus!!! Whoop, Whoop!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Thanks for responding.

I have all the boxes ticked
And still no notifications? I heard google was hacked last week...
is it a gmail account? Just wondering, not that I know what all was affected :)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Calvin was influenced by Augustine. Some claim that in the former's Institutes Augustine was referenced nearly 400x, and in Calvin's works as a whole 1700x. In the Institutes Calvin writes, "And this is the meaning of Augustine (whom we quote more frequently, as being the best and most faithful witness of all antiquity). Institutes Book 4 Chapter 14.26
Yes. I do agree that Augustine was the most faithful to this belief in the time of antiquity.
He also changed his mind about 3 or 4 differenct doctrine/concepts from the beginning of his Christian life and then to the end. Whenever one wants to know what Augustine thought of anything...the question must be asked: At what part of his life?

None of the ECF, those that were pre-Nicene, believed in anything even remotely closer to Calvin.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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"Why does Paul tell us to present ourselves a living sacrifice?"
_______
This is encouragement for us to do well. Which you agree is only possible through Him. Sheep are supposed to follow the Shepard...it's when they don't that they deserve the credit for the direction of their steps...the Shepard has His ways of speaking to them.... sometimes through encouragement.



Maybe we're getting giving credit to God with saying He does everything?
_____________
Hahaha
Is the credit really mine to give?
🤔🤔🤔




I hope you enjoy your meal🙂
Thanks.

You said sheep are SUPPOSED to follow the shepherd.
This is a key word and what I've been saying.
We're supposed to follow the Shepherd if we want to be good disciples....
trouble is sometimes we don't.

So this is the question:
When we don't...is it US that decide not to...
Or is it God failing His work?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Hi Fran, why do you continue to say, "God does every thing?" He has prepared work for us to do from before hand. No Christian is saying God does everything only you are. Growing in grace and the knowledge of our Savior is our daily walk and has nothing to do with "keeping ourselves saved, God does that, "Not By Works"

We are saved by grace through faith and that "not of yourself", why is this truth so difficult to understand. Our works that Christians produce are evidence of our salvation works do not save nor keep you saved. You are teaching a "grace pus works" gospel just say it and tell the truth.

The bible say's; "Now to Him who is able", not you are able; a difficult lesson for some to learn, why? Because of "pride the original sin." You are teaching a counterfeit gospel, "works plus grace."

I do not understand why if God saves us; it is a gift, not by works, lest anyone boast", why you can not believe that He will bring us to completion.

Jude 1:24,25
24Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all time, and now, and for all eternity.
Amen.
When did I ever not tell the truth?
I've always stated my position very clearly.
I also never said Jesus will not complete what He started.
What I have always said is that we have to ALLOW Him to.
I DO NOT believe in OSAS. This is the difference between you and me.
I'm not preaching a different gospel. I'm preaching the only gospel there is....

In the year 1,500 or so, some men decided that salvation could not be lost.
This was NEVER taught in the Christian church until that time.

Do you think the church was wrong for 1,500 years?
And then suddenly the truth was found in the same bible that was ALWAYS read and used?

No. It's just that someone came up with man's new idea of preservation of the saints---eternal security---OSAS.

Please stop asking me why I cannot believe something that is not found in the N.T.
I've listed many posts that show we can lose our salvation...but I do tire of speaking about this and would like to get on to other discussions.

God saves whoever wants to be saved --- as long as they follow HIS conditions.


Colossians 1:21-23

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.



Luke 22:31-32

31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”


1 Timothy 2:18-20

18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.


2 Timothy 2:16-19
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”


Jude
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.



2 Timothy 4:7-8

7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:


Revelation 2:10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.



It's clear from scripture that we must keep our faith alive till the end in order to gain eternal life, which is our prize.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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Except for the fact it is dual in application with one being applied to our eternal position in Christ, and the other is applied unto our transformation and daily walk.....<----the latter being subject to failures and successes.............
Agreed...as long as we have Christ and He is dwelling within us.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I am fairly confident that any good work we may do is the result of Christ doing it through us as a living sacrifice and exactly why he gets all the glory<----Apart from me you can do NOTHING....so....who is it that is doing the work...........?

watch em squirm.........
No squirming.

Romans 12:1-2
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.


The above is the verse I had posted.
Paul tells us to PRESENT OUR bodies a living sacrifice.
He does NOT say this has already been done.

He says that is is to be acceptable to God...
which is our spiritual service of worship.
He does NOT say not to worry because Jesus is doing everything for us.

Paul tells us not to be conformed to this world...
Sounds like something WE have to decide to do....

But to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.
Paul does NOT say that we're not to worry because God has already renewed our mind.

He states that by the renewing of our mind we may prove what is the will of God.
He does NOT say that God will do HIS will without our cooperation.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Thanks.

You said sheep are SUPPOSED to follow the shepherd.
This is a key word and what I've been saying.
We're supposed to follow the Shepherd if we want to be good disciples....
trouble is sometimes we don't.

So this is the question:
When we don't...is it US that decide not to...
Or is it God failing His work?

You're welcome. Hahaha.

(I don't think anyone here would argue that we aren't supposed to follow our Heavenly Father.)


We both agreed already that the error comes from the sheep not following the Shepard right?

The Shepard comes back to get His lost sheep...

He doesn't lose one of His...



but I thought the original question you had was more like

"the sheep should get some form of credit for going in the right direction"

when in truth

the only time the sheep goes in the right direction

it is by hearing the Shepards voice
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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You're welcome. Hahaha.

(I don't think anyone here would argue that we aren't supposed to follow our Heavenly Father.)


We both agreed already that the error comes from the sheep not following the Shepard right?

The Shepard comes back to get His lost sheep...

He doesn't lose one of His...



but I thought the original question you had was more like

"the sheep should get some form of credit for going in the right direction"

when in truth

the only time the sheep goes in the right direction

it is by hearing the Shepards voice
But the sheep who got lost didn't hear the voice?
Why did he wander off?

The sheep that stayed with the shepherd LISTENED to the voice...
they chose to STAY with the shepherd and not get lost.

Don't turn this into OSAS again.
God seeks to save everyone.
He will always seek to get you back.
He will always accept you back.

I'm trying to say something that is not being considered.
We do everything we do with the help of the Holy Spirit.
God gives us strength.
Psalm 121:1
Philippians 4:13
etc.

However, these days I hear that JESUS does everything for us.
Then we hear right here on this thread that the church is becoming weak.
It's becoming weak because we don't ask anything of anyone anymore.

Some time ago, one had to be strong to be a Christian. Things were asked of them...
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

If you read Luke chapter 9, most of it is about what it costs to follow Jesus.
It has a price precisely because Jesus requires US to do things...HE is not going to do everything for us.

He went to the cross.
I think that's enough.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No squirming.

Romans 12:1-2
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.


The above is the verse I had posted.
Paul tells us to PRESENT OUR bodies a living sacrifice.
He does NOT say this has already been done.


He says that is is to be acceptable to God...
which is our spiritual service of worship.
He does NOT say not to worry because Jesus is doing everything for us.


Paul tells us not to be conformed to this world...
Sounds like something WE have to decide to do....


But to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.
Paul does NOT say that we're not to worry because God has already renewed our mind.


He states that by the renewing of our mind we may prove what is the will of God.
He does NOT say that God will do HIS will without our cooperation.
Yep...ongoing sanctification.....the 2nd application of sanctification found in scripture........so let's recap...

who saves
who enlightens
who cause spiritual growth
who renews
whose word does the above
who changes us
who molds us as the clay
who walks in us
who works IN US for his good pleasure

If you interject yourself in the above instead of GOD, then you get the glory......
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
But the sheep who got lost didn't hear the voice?
Why did he wander off?

The sheep that stayed with the shepherd LISTENED to the voice...
they chose to STAY with the shepherd and not get lost.

Don't turn this into OSAS again.
God seeks to save everyone.
He will always seek to get you back.
He will always accept you back.


I'm trying to say something that is not being considered.
We do everything we do with the help of the Holy Spirit.
God gives us strength.
Psalm 121:1
Philippians 4:13
etc.

However, these days I hear that JESUS does everything for us.
Then we hear right here on this thread that the church is becoming weak.
It's becoming weak because we don't ask anything of anyone anymore.

Some time ago, one had to be strong to be a Christian. Things were asked of them...
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

If you read Luke chapter 9, most of it is about what it costs to follow Jesus.
It has a price precisely because Jesus requires US to do things...HE is not going to do everything for us.


He went to the cross.
I think that's enough.

I am not trying to turn this into anything...lol

Just talking... honestly




______________
But the sheep who got lost didn't hear the voice?
Why did he wander off?

______________

Well that depends..🤔

hypothetical sheep number 1
or number 2
or number 71
they are all veeeeery different GG.
🙄
But regardless
it was by their power

and not following the Shepard.



___________
The sheep that stayed with the shepherd LISTENED to the voice...
they chose to STAY with the shepherd and not get lost
___________


What is your point?
They deserve credit for hearing, examining and just doing what they are lead to do?



_______________
Don't turn this into OSAS again.
God seeks to save everyone.
He will always seek to get you back.
He will always accept you back.


_______________
Accept you back from what?
You seem to be the one making this about OSAS....

I was speaking of the walk of us saved believers and Gods inability to fail when the question you brought up seemed to suggest He could...


_________________
However, these days I hear that JESUS does everything for us.
Then we hear right here on this thread that the church is becoming weak.
It's becoming weak because we don't ask anything of anyone anymore.

Some time ago, one had to be strong to be a Christian. Things were asked of them...


__________________

I don't know about you, but I have had more asked of me in the last few years as a believer than the first couple dozen years.....

and when God uses me for good I am grateful to be a part of His body
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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... It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. For GOD DID NOT CALL YOU TO BE IMPURE, BUT TO LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, HE WHO REJECTS THIS INSTRUCTION DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 ...

Therefore, PREPARE YOUR MINDS FOR ACTION; be self-controlled; SET YOUR HOPE FULLY ON THE GRACE TO BE GIVEN YOU WHEN JESUS CHRIST IS REVEALED. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:13-16

... But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...I know your deeds, you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD.3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:1-3

...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM WHO WARNS US FROM HEAVEN? Hebrews 12:25
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit can be in us to empower and enable us to meet the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law.

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8

If someone is being led by the Spirit, he will not say that works done by those who teaches obedience to God have no bearing unto salvation and that they are just filthy rags.

...“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, WHATEVER YOU DID FOR ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE BROTHERS OF MINE, YOU DID FOR ME.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘DEPART FROM ME, you who are cursed, INTO THE ETERNAL FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:40-41

It is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit to call the works He is doing in a believer, the little ones who believe in Him, as filthy rags and has no bearing unto salvation.

Those who teach obedience to God are led by the Spirit since no one without the Spirit will teach obedience to God because there is no Holy Spirit in them that is leading them to obey, and teach obedience to God, to other people.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, the prophets, apostles, disciples and all the Holy men of God obey and teach obedience to God? YES

..If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

DO NOT just listen and CLAIM and then BOAST THAT you are SAVED and others are not. Jesus will save His BODY who are eagerly awaiting a Savior from heaven. It is not a PERSONAL SALVATION but He will SAVE HIS BODY which is the Church.(Ephesians 5:23)

So if you are not IN HIM because you have RUN AHEAD and claimed victory without the HEAD who is the Lord Jesus Christ, THINK IT OVER.

...ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. ONLY LET US LIVE UP TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED. Philippians 3:12-16

...These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US (A NEW CREATION ÌN CHRIST CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS- Ephesians 2:10-22) would they be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39-40
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit can be in us to empower and enable us to meet the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law.

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8
In a deeper sense, His death on the cross is our source of perfect righteousness, even trumping our 'daily' righteousness...

Rom 3:21-26
(21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
(22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(26) It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 5:18-19
(18) Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
(19) For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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When did I ever not tell the truth?
I've always stated my position very clearly.
I also never said Jesus will not complete what He started.
What I have always said is that we have to ALLOW Him to.
I DO NOT believe in OSAS. This is the difference between you and me.
I'm not preaching a different gospel. I'm preaching the only gospel there is....

In the year 1,500 or so, some men decided that salvation could not be lost.
This was NEVER taught in the Christian church until that time.

Do you think the church was wrong for 1,500 years?
And then suddenly the truth was found in the same bible that was ALWAYS read and used?

No. It's just that someone came up with man's new idea of preservation of the saints---eternal security---OSAS.

Please stop asking me why I cannot believe something that is not found in the N.T.
I've listed many posts that show we can lose our salvation...but I do tire of speaking about this and would like to get on to other discussions.

God saves whoever wants to be saved --- as long as they follow HIS conditions.


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Luke 22:31-32
31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
1 Timothy 2:18-20
18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 2:16-19
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
Jude
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
2 Timothy 4:7-8
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Revelation 2:10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
It's clear from scripture that we must keep our faith alive till the end in order to gain eternal life, which is our prize.
Okay thanks I'm done....
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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In a deeper sense, His death on the cross is our source of perfect righteousness, even trumping our 'daily' righteousness...

Rom 3:21-26
(21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
(22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(26) It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 5:18-19
(18) Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
(19) For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Amen to the Word of God.

...During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:7-10

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:26

...FAITH THAT WORKETH IN LOVE. Galatians 5:6

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1

BELIEVERS should not worry that they may not be able to meet GOD'S standard through their obedience. GOD'S GRACE is sufficient for us.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for MY POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I know how you feel brother.........seems like everyone's teeth is set on edge hey......
Yep exactly, Fran's repetition about "Jesus requires us to do things" yes He does like our daily walk with Him and becoming mature in Christ. Who say's Christians should get up and put on their white rob's, go high up on a mountain and sit there and do nothing, just nonsense.

"Jesus requires US to do things..."HE is not going to do everything for us." (pure nonsense).