Not By Works

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Argueless

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Oct 21, 2018
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Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, “It is finished.” Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father; rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

Just prior to His arrest by the Romans, Jesus prayed His last public prayer, asking the Father to glorify Him, just as Jesus had glorified the Father on earth, having “finished the work you have given me to do” (John 17:4). The work Jesus was sent to do was to “seek and save that which is lost” (Luke 19:10), to provide atonement for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him (Romans 3:23-25), and to reconcile sinful men to a holy God. “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). None other but God in the flesh could accomplish such a task.

Also completed was the fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies, symbols, and foreshadowings of the coming Messiah. From Genesis to Malachi, there are over 300 specific prophecies detailing the coming of the Anointed One, all fulfilled by Jesus. From the “seed” who would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15), to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, to the prediction of the “messenger” of the Lord (John the Baptist) who would “prepare the way” for the Messiah, all prophecies of Jesus’ life, ministry, and death were fulfilled and finished at the cross.

Although the redemption of mankind is the most important finished task, many other things were finished at the cross. The sufferings Jesus endured while on the earth, and especially in His last hours, were at last over. God’s will for Jesus was accomplished in His perfect obedience to the Father (John 5:30; 6:38). Most importantly, the power of sin and Satan was finished. NO LONGER WOULD MANKIND HAVE TO SUFFER the “flaming arrows of the evil one” (Ephesians 6:16). By raising the “shield of faith” in the One who COMPLETED THE WORK OF redemption and SALVATION, we can, by faith, live as new creations in Christ. Jesus’ finished work on the cross was the beginning of new life for all who were once “dead in trespasses and sins” but who are now made “alive with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5).

Got Questions

That's why we say "the finished work of Christ".
Are you among the believers eagerly awaiting a savior from heaven who will transform our lowly bodies into a glorious one?

...But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Philippians 3:20-21

Or is your salvation already complete that you no longer wait for our Lord Jesus to finish your salvation?

..."I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God." Revelations 3:1-6

...Our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11-14

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of His body (Ephesians 5:23) which will be presented to God pure and unblemished.

...I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2-3

...But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—Colossians 1:21-23

Have you been presented to God as pure and unblemished ahead of His body which is the church?

Have you died and been judged by God ahead of everyone who will be judged come the great day of judgment which God has appointed?

...Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and HE WILL APPEAR A SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:27-28

Quote: NO LONGER WOULD MANKIND HAVE TO SUFFER the “flaming arrows of the evil one” ....This is not quite true referring to MANKIND but is possible for those in the body of Christ. Thus, the bible warns us about the works of the evil one.

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:7-8

...I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, BECAUSE I AM GOING TO THE FATHER.
John 14:12


Those in the body of Christ are God's fellow workers. (1 Corinthians 3:9)

...and only WITH GOD are ALL THINGS POSSIBLE. (Matthew 19:16-30)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,029
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Are you among the believers eagerly awaiting a savior from heaven who will transform our lowly bodies into a glorious one?

...But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Philippians 3:20-21

Or is your salvation already complete that you no longer wait for our Lord Jesus to finish your salvation?

..."I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God." Revelations 3:1-6

...Our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11-14

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of His body (Ephesians 5:23) which will be presented to God pure and unblemished.

...I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2-3

...But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—Colossians 1:21-23

Have you been presented to God as pure and unblemished ahead of His body which is the church?

Have you died and been judged by God ahead of everyone who will be judged come the great day of judgment which God has appointed?

...Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and HE WILL APPEAR A SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:27-28

Quote: NO LONGER WOULD MANKIND HAVE TO SUFFER the “flaming arrows of the evil one” ....This is not quite true referring to MANKIND but is possible for those in the body of Christ. Thus, the bible warns us about the works of the evil one.

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:7-8

...I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, BECAUSE I AM GOING TO THE FATHER.
John 14:12


Those in the body of Christ are God's fellow workers. (1 Corinthians 3:9)

...and only WITH GOD are ALL THINGS POSSIBLE. (Matthew 19:16-30)
saying the same thing over and over will not make it true.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,029
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Yes believe, which means trust and commit to obey Jesus as Lord.


Nothing about His finished work.




JLB
words have definitions.

believe means a mental activity.

and yes, a true believer will obey, not to maintain salvation, but because one is saved.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
saying the same thing over and over will not make it true.
"Let God be true and every man a liar."

Who is the liar

...The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

And why do you reject God's word?

...For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

...He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 8:47
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,329
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Test the Spirits Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.1 John 4:1-3

Do you acknowledge Jesus as Lord who came in the flesh and taught regarding eternal life?
I absolutely do acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, as do all believers. I acknowledge Jesus as Lord who came in the flesh and taught regarding eternal life. John 3:14 - As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

If you really trust and believe Jesus, do you acknowledge His teachings such as the ff:
Trusting and believing in Jesus does not include trusting in works for salvation. (John 6:28-29; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) That's trusting in self. I've heard numerous works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's along with other misguided teachers of the law) cite Matthew 19:16-30 in their efforts to pervert the gospel and teach salvation by works.

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” Matthew 19:16-30
Jesus was testing this rich young man who confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus. The rich young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). The rich young man went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

*If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we "obtain" eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Why didn't Jesus mention "keeping the commandments" IN ADDITION to believing in Him in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Why didn't Peter say, "whoever keeps the commandments" shall receive remission of sins in Acts 10:43? Instead, Peter said - .."whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Why didn't Paul mention to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) by replying in Acts 16:31, "keep the commandments, and you will be saved?" Instead, Paul said - "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young man the exact same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is obtaining eternal life through believing in Him/faith in Christ. *BTW nobody has "perfectly obeyed" all the commandments (except for Jesus) and the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over and not perfectly obey. In 1 John 2:3, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already have come to know Him - John 17:3) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. This is the demonstrative evidence that we have already come to know Him/are already saved.

I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that he did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards contracted himself by making this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

*Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to "include" works and the end result is salvation through faith + works. *Works-salvationists in general make this same error.

...He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13
*In context, who was Jesus addressing here? - The Pharisees and scribes. NOT believers.

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Descriptive of works-salvationists (Matthew 7:21-23)

...Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20
Yes, go makes disciples, baptize converts and teach them to obey everything Jesus has commanded, which does not include teaching and seeking salvation by works.

...“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50 ...and many more.
I find it interesting that LGW (prior to getting banned from CC) quoted this scripture a lot and accused believers of failing to hears the words of Jesus and keep them, yet LGW perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Can you acknowledge and humbly receive them as true teachings of the Lord you claim to trust and believe without any mistranslations?
I acknowledge and humbly receive the true teachings of the Lord and I also trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. I just don't trust and believe in your misinterpretation of scripture that results in works salvation.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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I agree, except for a person who leads people to depart from the faith by false doctrine of lawlessness.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1

How can a person remain saved who departs from the faith in Christ.

JPT
Sadly, I've heard many "nominal" Christians who have not yet placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation make that argument. 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. That sounds familiar. Prior to my conversion several years ago, I attended the Roman Catholic church.

I presume that you believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. Yet that does not mean they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids it's clergy to marry. This same church has other demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc.. which eventually lead to the Protestant Reformation.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I absolutely do acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, as do all believers. I acknowledge Jesus as Lord who came in the flesh and taught regarding eternal life. John 3:14 - As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

Trusting and believing in Jesus does not include trusting in works for salvation. (John 6:28-29; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) That's trusting in self. I've heard numerous works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's along with other misguided teachers of the law) cite Matthew 19:16-30 in their efforts to pervert the gospel and teach salvation by works.

Jesus was testing this rich young man who confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus. The rich young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). The rich young man went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

*If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we "obtain" eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Why didn't Jesus mention "keeping the commandments" IN ADDITION to believing in Him in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Why didn't Peter say, "whoever keeps the commandments" shall receive remission of sins in Acts 10:43? Instead, Peter said - .."whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Why didn't Paul mention to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) by replying in Acts 16:31, "keep the commandments, and you will be saved?" Instead, Paul said - "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young man the exact same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is obtaining eternal life through believing in Him/faith in Christ. *BTW nobody has "perfectly obeyed" all the commandments (except for Jesus) and the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over and not perfectly obey. In 1 John 2:3, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already have come to know Him - John 17:3) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. This is the demonstrative evidence that we have already come to know Him/are already saved.

I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that he did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards contracted himself by making this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

*Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to "include" works and the end result is salvation through faith + works. *Works-salvationists in general make this same error.

*In context, who was Jesus addressing here? - The Pharisees and scribes. NOT believers.

Descriptive of works-salvationists (Matthew 7:21-23)

Yes, go makes disciples, baptize converts and teach them to obey everything Jesus has commanded, which does not include teaching and seeking salvation by works.

I find it interesting that LGW (prior to getting banned from CC) quoted this scripture a lot and accused believers of failing to hears the words of Jesus and keep them, yet LGW perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

I acknowledge and humbly receive the true teachings of the Lord and I also trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. I just don't trust and believe in your misinterpretation of scripture that results in works salvation.

amen brother

very well said
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,029
2,888
113
"Let God be true and every man a liar."

Who is the liar

...The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

And why do you reject God's word?

...For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

...He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 8:47
and what are the commands John was referring to?

believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. ( chapter 3).

when you quote Scripture about command keeping, it is good to understand what the commands are...
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, “It is finished.” Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father; rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

Just prior to His arrest by the Romans, Jesus prayed His last public prayer, asking the Father to glorify Him, just as Jesus had glorified the Father on earth, having “finished the work you have given me to do” (John 17:4). The work Jesus was sent to do was to “seek and save that which is lost” (Luke 19:10), to provide atonement for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him (Romans 3:23-25), and to reconcile sinful men to a holy God. “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). None other but God in the flesh could accomplish such a task.

Also completed was the fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies, symbols, and foreshadowings of the coming Messiah. From Genesis to Malachi, there are over 300 specific prophecies detailing the coming of the Anointed One, all fulfilled by Jesus. From the “seed” who would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15), to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, to the prediction of the “messenger” of the Lord (John the Baptist) who would “prepare the way” for the Messiah, all prophecies of Jesus’ life, ministry, and death were fulfilled and finished at the cross.

Although the redemption of mankind is the most important finished task, many other things were finished at the cross. The sufferings Jesus endured while on the earth, and especially in His last hours, were at last over. God’s will for Jesus was accomplished in His perfect obedience to the Father (John 5:30; 6:38). Most importantly, the power of sin and Satan was finished. No longer would mankind have to suffer the “flaming arrows of the evil one” (Ephesians 6:16). By raising the “shield of faith” in the One who completed the work of redemption and salvation, we can, by faith, live as new creations in Christ. Jesus’ finished work on the cross was the beginning of new life for all who were once “dead in trespasses and sins” but who are now made “alive with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5).

Got Questions

That's why we say "the finished work of Christ".

That’s fine. Thank you for your answer.


My question remains: Is Jesus alive today, and interceding for us?


Is so He s still working on our behalf.



Jesus also said -


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


That’s why we say those who are “in Him” are saved, and those who are removed from Him, are no Longer saved.




JLB
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Jesus already answered this question. If you want to know the work God requires - here it is:

"Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Period.

God requires obedience.

I know, because I know Him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





JLB
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
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words have definitions.

believe means a mental activity.

and yes, a true believer will obey, not to maintain salvation, but because one is saved.

Believe means trust, commit and obey.



Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.


Believe: - pisteuō Strongs # G4100 - verb


The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe(239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).


I. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
A. of the thing believed
i. to credit, have confidence
B. in a moral or religious reference
i. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
ii. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
iii. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
II. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
A. to be intrusted with a thing



He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



It is noteworthy to understand that unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word and are used interchangeably in the Bible based on translation.


Example: Unbelief - Disobedience



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


The word “believe” as it relates to Christ and His gospel, commandments and doctrine should be understood as follows.

Believe - Trust, commit, obey




JPT
 

dcontroversal

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I saw this in the thread, and it occurred to me just today that if one believes in "limited atonement" then one basically has to lie to people when they tell them that Christ Jesus died for their sin?

It could be a lie since there is a good chance that Christ Jesus did not die for their sins?

Am I missing something?
Well, think abut this truth....Jesus told the Pharisees that if they did not believe in who he was saying he was and is, they would die in their SINS and not be able to go or be where he was going to be.......that statement itself bears out the truth about Christ dying for the sins of the world.....My view.....He died for all sin, but his blood is only applied by faith so in essence if you do not trust Christ his blood is not applied and they will die in their sin.....if that makes sense.......
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Believe means trust, commit and obey.



Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.


Believe: - pisteuō Strongs # G4100 - verb


The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe(239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).


I. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
A. of the thing believed
i. to credit, have confidence
B. in a moral or religious reference
i. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
ii. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
iii. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
II. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
A. to be intrusted with a thing



He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



It is noteworthy to understand that unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word and are used interchangeably in the Bible based on translation.


Example: Unbelief - Disobedience



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


The word “believe” as it relates to Christ and His gospel, commandments and doctrine should be understood as follows.

Believe - Trust, commit, obey




JPT
so you lay out the proper definition of believe, then you add " obey " as a definition,

obedience is the RESULT of believing. not a cause.

you and fran really need to accept the definition of believe, and not add to it.

dishonest lying has no place in Christianity.
 

dcontroversal

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You can get so defensive, oh my. WHY ? ? ? No, I just reposted a THREAD that I did Years ago, long before I ever knew you were ANTI-CATHOLIC, in fact I think it was on Bible-Disucussion.com, before I came HERE. My opinion is about 666 has not changed for Decades.

Here is the Thread that I restarted here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/are-we-there-yet-666.182554/
I am not anti Catholic and have stated numerous times in CC that I believe some are probably saved.......the statements you have made about me are false and misleading.....I am 100% opposed to Catholic dogma and one would have to be totally dishonest with the facts to say or even believe that Jesus recognizes the Catholic church as one of his...........from it's founding, to what it espouses, to it's history of murder, forced religion, the doctrine it teaches and pushes, enthronement of the POPE, worship of idols, worship of MARY and her INTERCESSORY ability, and embracing ecumenism while attempting to bring ALL religions under the same banner, including ISLAM and JUDAISM PROVES they are not of GOD and or one of the LORD'S churches..........and too be as frank as I can......I cannot believe ANY saved child of God that has an inkling of truth would say or embrace them as being from God
 

dcontroversal

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This is what happens when a person is involved with this RC system they become blinded to the evil.

The Catholic institution is completely occultic, Egyptian mystery religions nonsense at its core, they have many mysteries and secrets.

Sadly many of the churches from the Reformation really have not divested themselves from Augustinian heresy.

No one, but no one, should be defending this institution

Here is one more piece of evidence

Transubstantiation (Communion)

In the Catholic Church, the Mass is heralded as the transubstantiation, or unbloody sacrifice, where small, thin, round wafers are eaten. The Babylonians worshipped Baal in the same way, using the small, thin, round wafers as a symbol of the sun god. The letters on the wafer, I.H.S., supposedly stand for Iesus Hominum Salvator, Jesus the Savior of Men, but in Babylon, they stood for Isis Horus, Seb, the mother, the child, and the father of the gods (the Egyptian trinity).

I support your calling a spade a spade!!!
Amen.....one would have to be blind or bias to embrace the Catholic Church and then say that JESUS acknowledges it as one of his..............One should read what they did to the Anabaptists, Waldenses, Albigenses, Paulicians, Lollards, etc. during the dark ages because they refused to confess in the ears of a Priest or take communion with the Catholic Church.........Or maybe read the creed taken by the militant wing of the Catholic Chrurch, of the which the current POPE is a member of.......it is flat ridiculous......
 
Oct 31, 2015
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so you lay out the proper definition of believe, then you add " obey " as a definition,

obedience is the RESULT of believing. not a cause.

you and fran really need to accept the definition of believe, and not add to it.

dishonest lying has no place in Christianity.

Here it is again, maybe you missed it.



He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



It is noteworthy to understand that unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word and are used interchangeably in the Bible based on translation.


Example: Unbelief - Disobedience



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


The word “believe” as it relates to Christ and His gospel, commandments and doctrine should be understood as follows.

Believe - Trust, commit, obey



That’s why the Bible commands us to obey the Gospel, as well as believe the Gospel.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16



again



in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8



Believe - Trust, commit, obey





JPT
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
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Jesus already answered this question. If you want to know the work God requires - here it is:

"Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Period.
Simple truth......believe, acknowledge = saved........eternally I might add.................Jesus said it best....If you do not believe in me you WILL die in your sins........he also said....He that BELIEVES in the SON is NOT condemned......the simplicity found in Christ.....
 

dcontroversal

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Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, “It is finished.” Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father; rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

Just prior to His arrest by the Romans, Jesus prayed His last public prayer, asking the Father to glorify Him, just as Jesus had glorified the Father on earth, having “finished the work you have given me to do” (John 17:4). The work Jesus was sent to do was to “seek and save that which is lost” (Luke 19:10), to provide atonement for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him (Romans 3:23-25), and to reconcile sinful men to a holy God. “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). None other but God in the flesh could accomplish such a task.

Also completed was the fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies, symbols, and foreshadowings of the coming Messiah. From Genesis to Malachi, there are over 300 specific prophecies detailing the coming of the Anointed One, all fulfilled by Jesus. From the “seed” who would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15), to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, to the prediction of the “messenger” of the Lord (John the Baptist) who would “prepare the way” for the Messiah, all prophecies of Jesus’ life, ministry, and death were fulfilled and finished at the cross.

Although the redemption of mankind is the most important finished task, many other things were finished at the cross. The sufferings Jesus endured while on the earth, and especially in His last hours, were at last over. God’s will for Jesus was accomplished in His perfect obedience to the Father (John 5:30; 6:38). Most importantly, the power of sin and Satan was finished. No longer would mankind have to suffer the “flaming arrows of the evil one” (Ephesians 6:16). By raising the “shield of faith” in the One who completed the work of redemption and salvation, we can, by faith, live as new creations in Christ. Jesus’ finished work on the cross was the beginning of new life for all who were once “dead in trespasses and sins” but who are now made “alive with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5).

Got Questions

That's why we say "the finished work of Christ".
AMEN.............100% truth..................
 

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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so you lay out the proper definition of believe, then you add " obey " as a definition,

obedience is the RESULT of believing. not a cause.

you and fran really need to accept the definition of believe, and not add to it.

dishonest lying has no place in Christianity.
AMEN to that one................it is amazing how words can be skewed......two different words, two different applications......end of story
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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so you lay out the proper definition of believe, then you add " obey " as a definition,

obedience is the RESULT of believing. not a cause.

you and fran really need to accept the definition of believe, and not add to it.

dishonest lying has no place in Christianity.
Amen! Works-salvationists "re-define" believe to "include" obedience/works. Which also explains why works-salvationists teach that salvation is obtained and/or maintained by works. :(

In post #82,691 notice how justpassinthrough quoted John 3:36 in two different translations below in order to further promote his error of re-defining believe as obey/works.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB
I have explained this to JPT numerous times before, but unfortunately,. he continues to ignore the truth. I often have often heard works-salvationists (especially Roman Catholics) quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This has caused confusion for JPT which explains why he "adds" the word "obey" to the definition of believe "pisteuo" and continues to peddle works salvation. :cautious: