Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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In John 19:30, we read that after Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” (which means our sin debt has been paid in full). In Romans 3:24, we read the believers are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. You don't need the words -- "finished work of Christ" specifically spelled out in the Bible in order to figure this out. We are to believe/trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16)

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, we read - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. *His finished work of redemption is summed up in the gospel and is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (y)
Test the Spirits Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.1 John 4:1-3

Do you acknowledge Jesus as Lord who came in the flesh and taught regarding eternal life?

If you really trust and believe Jesus, do you acknowledge His teachings such as the ff:

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” Matthew 19:16-30

...He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

...Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20

...“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50 ...and many more.

Can you acknowledge and humbly receive them as true teachings of the Lord you claim to trust and believe without any mistranslations?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,993
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There is a picture of 3 cardinals standing behind the POPE, they are ALL in black with purple sashes aligned to look like each one has a letter of the Hebrew alphabet on his robe.....lined up they = 666.....it has been a while since I seen the picture, but seemed rather obvious.........in yellow is what it looked like in the picture....




Hidden secret Meanings to the 666, are pure hogwash. Henry Kissinger designed an emergency I.D. number, back when they thought the YEAR 2000, would wreck all computer systems useless for some time. That I.D. Number was then 5 digits - 5 digits - 5 digits, and everyone would be given separate I.D. Number in the USA and Australia. The first 5 digits would be the town you live in - the second five digits would be your front door, and the third 5 digits would be the I.D. within that House. For that to work world wide you would have to add a digit to each of those three groups of numbers, and then EVERY INDIVIDUALS ECONOMIES could be controlled by a single Super Computer. And those three groups of numbers would be: 6 digits - 6 digits - 6 digits, the equivalent of a world wide Social Security Number. Why look for a Secret Code, when the ANSWER is as plain as DAY. A RFID CHIP in the back of your right hand of forehead.


Revelation 13:18 (HCSB)
18 Here is wisdom: The one who has understanding must calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a man. His number is 666.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
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Love and truth go hand in hand...Catholic doctrine does not personify truth......end of story!
This had nothing to do with Catholicism Dcon. It was to argueless. I also asked grace101 what being obedient to the faith meant. No answer.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
669
205
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Gotta love so called believers that red x truthful posts.......no wonder Jesus get's sold out on a regular basis by many that say they are saved.....
Is God invisible? How do you suppose he would reveal himself to humanity if he is invisible, Spirit?
1. Jesus is in the flesh as the SON of MAN and setting the example for humanity to pray to OUR FATHER which MADE US ALL
2. JESUS is in the Flesh and LIMITED by the flesh having disrobed himself of GLORY
3. GOD is reconciling MAN UNTO HIMSELF through the PHYSICAL ICON of HIMSELF
4. JESUS which is the PHYSICAL representation of the INVISIBLE GOD had momentarily disrobed himself of the GLORY he HELD with the FATHER and is as MUCH GOD in his glorified STATE as the FATHER IS
5. HE sits on the THRONE AS GOD <---REVELATION and retakes HIS place that HE LEFT to fulfill 3
6. Does the LAMB described SOUND like JESUS or do you suppose it is a REPRESENTATION of CHRIST in HEAVEN (DO you think GOD is limited to one place at one time?)
Thanks for the reply,

1) So, am I correct that your answer is: Yes he's praying to himself

2) I'm still unclear as to you answer: Jesus states in the verse the Father is greater then he. Is the Father greater or not?

3 & 4) You answer is Yes, So, he came from himself & returned to himself.

5) The verse disagrees with your answer. Reread the vs: After he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God. He sits at the right hand NOT NEXT to himself.

6) You said; Does the LAMB described SOUND like JESUS or do you suppose it is a REPRESENTATION of CHRIST in HEAVEN

I say absolutely not! Read the God breathed scripture:

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Vs 5 NO SYMBOLIC REPRENSATION. The Lion of the tribe of Juda, the ROOT of David

VS 6 The Lamb, I found 29 references to the Lamb in Revelation ALL WERE ABOUT CHRIST

VS 7 The Lion of the tribe of Juda, the ROOT of David, the Lamb, the same one that sits down next to the One on the heavenly throne. Here the Lamb takes the book from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.

Again, I thank you for the reply. I disagree with ALL your answers. No harm no foul, the Apostles had disagreements. And still managed to love one another.

Your last question: Quote: "DO you think GOD is limited to one place at one time" YES! I do. However, I don't believe it's applicable to Rev 5:7.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
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"WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."

...For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I MIGHT DISPLAY MY POWER IN YOU and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

...But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for MY POWER is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, SO THAT CHRIST'S POWER MAY REST ON ME. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. FOR WHEN I AM WEAK, THEN I AM STRONG. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10

John 14:20-24 On that day you will realize that I AM IN MY FATHER, AND YOU ARE IN ME, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

"WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."

Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.

...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16)

That is why Paul said;

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?

...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18

...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24

They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."

...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38

I would therefore say and believe that;

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26

Eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.

...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25

"WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."
I totally disagree with the bolded....God does not contradict his word EVER.....HE is the only constant in the entire creation and he calls for his PEOPLE to come out from AMONG the false religions of the world.......I will tell you what....SHOW ME 2 biblical examples from scripture (from the OT and the NT) where GOD led or commanded his people, as believers to REMAIN part of something that was false for the sake of the end justifying the MEANS....this is a fair request because that is what you imply by the bolded above......when you can cite BIBLICAL examples to prove the above stance I will believe it....until then....

COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE SEPARATE SAITH THE LORD AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING.........
I will look but I seriously doubt there would be anything like that in the OT.

I believe their staying was to keep in contact with family and bring them to life in the Spirit. But, is just my opinion about it. They would of left if told to do so.

And am sure I won't change my mind on being led. :)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
669
205
43
Thanks for the reply,

1) So, am I correct that your answer is: Yes he's praying to himself

2) I'm still unclear as to you answer: Jesus states in the verse the Father is greater then he. Is the Father greater or not?

3 & 4) You answer is Yes, So, he came from himself & returned to himself.

5) The verse disagrees with your answer. Reread the vs: After he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God. He sits at the right hand NOT NEXT to himself.

6) You said; Does the LAMB described SOUND like JESUS or do you suppose it is a REPRESENTATION of CHRIST in HEAVEN

I say absolutely not! Read the God breathed scripture:

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Vs 5 NO SYMBOLIC REPRENSATION. The Lion of the tribe of Juda, the ROOT of David

VS 6 The Lamb, I found 29 references to the Lamb in Revelation ALL WERE ABOUT CHRIST

VS 7 The Lion of the tribe of Juda, the ROOT of David, the Lamb, the same one that sits down next to the One on the heavenly throne. Here the Lamb takes the book from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.

Again, I thank you for the reply. I disagree with ALL your answers. No harm no foul, the Apostles had disagreements. And still managed to love one another.

Your last question: Quote: "DO you think GOD is limited to one place at one time" NO! However, I don't believe it's applicable to Rev 5:7.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
There is a picture of 3 cardinals standing behind the POPE, they are ALL in black with purple sashes aligned to look like each one has a letter of the Hebrew alphabet on his robe.....lined up they = 666.....it has been a while since I seen the picture, but seemed rather obvious.........in yellow is what it looked like in the picture....

Three 6's is a man without God. Total man. Anti Christ. Three seven's is the Spirit filled man. The fullness!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
My iPad is doing that thing again, with including posts that have nothing to do with mine. Sorry, will try to catch it next time and delete.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
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I agree, except for a person who leads people to depart from the faith by false doctrine of lawlessness.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1


How can a person remain saved who departs from the faith in Christ.



JPT
That I believe, is one who hasn't believed unto salvation. Many say they believe in Jesus and think that means they are Christians.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,428
1,785
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I don't know about u guys, but hub and I are working every day to be in our Holy Saviour's business,
thus, being where our hearts mesh and always have the same goals...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,306
15,056
113
Hidden secret Meanings to the 666, are pure hogwash. Henry Kissinger designed an emergency I.D. number, back when they thought the YEAR 2000, would wreck all computer systems useless for some time. That I.D. Number was then 5 digits - 5 digits - 5 digits, and everyone would be given separate I.D. Number in the USA and Australia. The first 5 digits would be the town you live in - the second five digits would be your front door, and the third 5 digits would be the I.D. within that House. For that to work world wide you would have to add a digit to each of those three groups of numbers, and then EVERY INDIVIDUALS ECONOMIES could be controlled by a single Super Computer. And those three groups of numbers would be: 6 digits - 6 digits - 6 digits, the equivalent of a world wide Social Security Number. Why look for a Secret Code, when the ANSWER is as plain as DAY. A RFID CHIP in the back of your right hand of forehead.


Revelation 13:18 (HCSB)
18 Here is wisdom: The one who has understanding must calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a man. His number is 666.
I made a factual post about something I seen with my own eyes and exactly what it looked like....You are bias and red xed my post just because you support the Catholic church...how about some honesty
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,993
2,853
113
I made a factual post about something I seen with my own eyes and exactly what it looked like....You are bias and red xed my post just because you support the Catholic church...how about some honesty

You can get so defensive, oh my. WHY ? ? ? No, I just reposted a THREAD that I did Years ago, long before I ever knew you were ANTI-CATHOLIC, in fact I think it was on Bible-Disucussion.com, before I came HERE. My opinion is about 666 has not changed for Decades.

Here is the Thread that I restarted here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/are-we-there-yet-666.182554/
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
Two Kinds of Wisdom

...Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:13-18
 
Oct 31, 2015
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That I believe, is one who hasn't believed unto salvation. Many say they believe in Jesus and think that means they are Christians.

Only those who obey the Gospel are saved.

Those who continue to obey Christ, continue to be saved.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36




JLB
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There is a balance to be struck...they both have went to seed on their view....
and regardless of the few lip flappers pushing the one view the following is a total contradiction....

God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth

God chose some for hell
I saw this in the thread, and it occurred to me just today that if one believes in "limited atonement" then one basically has to lie to people when they tell them that Christ Jesus died for their sin?

It could be a lie since there is a good chance that Christ Jesus did not die for their sins?

Am I missing something?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There is a picture of 3 cardinals standing behind the POPE, they are ALL in black with purple sashes aligned to look like each one has a letter of the Hebrew alphabet on his robe.....lined up they = 666.....it has been a while since I seen the picture, but seemed rather obvious.........in yellow is what it looked like in the picture....
I made a factual post about something I seen with my own eyes and exactly what it looked like....You are bias and red xed my post just because you support the Catholic church...how about some honesty
This is what happens when a person is involved with this RC system they become blinded to the evil.

The Catholic institution is completely occultic, Egyptian mystery religions nonsense at its core, they have many mysteries and secrets.

Sadly many of the churches from the Reformation really have not divested themselves from Augustinian heresy.

No one, but no one, should be defending this institution

Here is one more piece of evidence

Transubstantiation (Communion)

In the Catholic Church, the Mass is heralded as the transubstantiation, or unbloody sacrifice, where small, thin, round wafers are eaten. The Babylonians worshipped Baal in the same way, using the small, thin, round wafers as a symbol of the sun god. The letters on the wafer, I.H.S., supposedly stand for Iesus Hominum Salvator, Jesus the Savior of Men, but in Babylon, they stood for Isis Horus, Seb, the mother, the child, and the father of the gods (the Egyptian trinity).

I support your calling a spade a spade!!!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,817
113
Only those who obey the Gospel are saved.

Those who continue to obey Christ, continue to be saved.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36




JLB

Jesus already answered this question. If you want to know the work God requires - here it is:

"Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Period.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,817
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I asked for a scriptures that says we are to believe in the finished work of Christ.


I asked this because some used this phrase.



JLB
Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, “It is finished.” Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father; rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

Just prior to His arrest by the Romans, Jesus prayed His last public prayer, asking the Father to glorify Him, just as Jesus had glorified the Father on earth, having “finished the work you have given me to do” (John 17:4). The work Jesus was sent to do was to “seek and save that which is lost” (Luke 19:10), to provide atonement for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him (Romans 3:23-25), and to reconcile sinful men to a holy God. “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). None other but God in the flesh could accomplish such a task.

Also completed was the fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies, symbols, and foreshadowings of the coming Messiah. From Genesis to Malachi, there are over 300 specific prophecies detailing the coming of the Anointed One, all fulfilled by Jesus. From the “seed” who would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15), to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, to the prediction of the “messenger” of the Lord (John the Baptist) who would “prepare the way” for the Messiah, all prophecies of Jesus’ life, ministry, and death were fulfilled and finished at the cross.

Although the redemption of mankind is the most important finished task, many other things were finished at the cross. The sufferings Jesus endured while on the earth, and especially in His last hours, were at last over. God’s will for Jesus was accomplished in His perfect obedience to the Father (John 5:30; 6:38). Most importantly, the power of sin and Satan was finished. No longer would mankind have to suffer the “flaming arrows of the evil one” (Ephesians 6:16). By raising the “shield of faith” in the One who completed the work of redemption and salvation, we can, by faith, live as new creations in Christ. Jesus’ finished work on the cross was the beginning of new life for all who were once “dead in trespasses and sins” but who are now made “alive with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5).

Got Questions

That's why we say "the finished work of Christ".