Not By Works

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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
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That is an ignorant question......no he called me to defend the faith and that is exactly what I will do...Did he call you to take his word, deny context and peddle a losable salvation which the bible does not teach?
I was just asking because you told me i was taking Heb 6 out of context but you never showed me where i was wrong. so i just assumed you was telling me what God "really" meant to say.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Are you serious?
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”



For by grace are you SAVED through faith.......past tense

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US....past tense

It is idiotic to say that we are not saved until the end.......the bible speaks of it in all three tenses because salvation is a present continuing result from a past completed action......
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
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so, tell us, have you completely stopped sinning ?
YES, JESUS saved me FROM my sin.......not IN my sin

"old things pass away and behold all things become new"
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

christian's do not have to sin everyday

the reason people sin everyday is because they are a sinners!

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:14-15 (KJV)
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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I can find verses which state...

faith is a gift
grace is a gift
salvation is a gift
eternal life is a gift
Would you be kind enough to share the scripture verses, you say you found stating ""faith is a gift"". Thx in advance...
 
Dec 27, 2018
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He absolutely cannot accept the fact that works are NOT A GIFT, but rather SOMETHING WE DO and then GET PAID FOR (REWARD)

Oh, so in other words meritorious. Ok
Well you can present the highest view of grace you want but it still has to be scriptural.

Our works are never meritorious, but the Christian can please God.

Who is claiming works are meritorious?
Faith is what pleases God. No matter how many works we do, they are nothing without faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him.

Who claims works are meritorious? Anyone who believes in faith plus works equals salvation. The people you are trying to refute.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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He absolutely cannot accept the fact that works are NOT A GIFT, but rather SOMETHING WE DO and then GET PAID FOR (REWARD)
In other words, the reward of our works is reckoned of DEBT? Is that what you are saying?

are the wages we earn of Grace or reckoned of debt?

Go look up meritorious. You just made good works meritorious if you think the reward/wages of our works is reckoned of debt

And if they are not reckoned by debt, they too are graciously bestowed and not merited, ie of GRACE

so reward is based on merit, reckoned of debt, not grace? So holding fast our confidence is something we get payed for? Hebrews 10:35

So a reward is always reckoned of debt, or are rewards unmerited favor?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Works are something we do and get paid for? Ok, but the wages are not paid out of debt, but the wages too are unmerited grace.

For everything we receive from God is unmerited. And if it is unmerited, it is a gift of grace I

This is where your understanding FAILS


God owes us Nothing! Rewards are not reckoned of debt. What we get PAID as you call it is reckoned of GRACE, not of debt.

If the reward is not of grace, then it is reckoned of debt, ie meritorious.

My only merit is Jesus

God's rewards are just as unmerited as salvation is. It's ALL OF GRACE!
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Everything is an undeserved gift, even the rewards and wages earned that dC brought uo. Because God owes us Nothing.

And if He owes us Nothing, and gives anyways, that is a gift.

If you do not believe this, you think works are meritorious.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Paul is rewarded, even though it is not He that labors, but the grace of God with Him that labored abundantly. 1 Cor. 15:10

Even when we have done all that is commanded, we are unprofitable. We have only done what is our duty. Luke 17:10

Every worker gets a penny. Matthew 20:13-14

Jesus gets all of our crowns. All glory is His. Rev 4:10-11

What is not reckoned of grace is reckoned of debt. See last 3 posts if you missed them

God owes us Nothing.

Being used of God is a Divine favor Luke 1:30

Even rewards and wages are unmerited and undeserved.

Jesus is our only merit

Right DC?

If you guys don't get it yet, I'm wasting my time here
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Meritorious. Deserving of praise or reward.

We do receive a reward, but it is undeserved. And if it is undeserved it is reckoned of grace, not of debt

If we say it is deserved, we claim God owes us. God owes us NOTHING

Therefore, even the rewards or wages as they are called are undeserved. After we have done all, we are yet unprofitable. Luke 17:10

Therefore, even the rewards/wages are reckoned of grace, not of debt

All of grace, all of grace, all of grace
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Meritorious. Deserving of praise or reward. We do receive a reward, but it is undeserved. And if it is undeserved it is reckoned of grace, not of debt

So what is the difference between receiving something by grace and receiving it as a gift. DC NEVER answered this as far as I know.
If we say it is deserved, we claim God owes us. God owes us NOTHING

Therefore, even the rewards or wages as they are called are undeserved. After we have done all, we are yet unprofitable. Luke 17:10

Therefore, even the rewards/wages are reckoned of grace, not of debt

All of grace, all of grace, all of grace
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Isn't that true of fruit trees?
So you think a person can be a Christian can live for years and never shine the LIGHT

Why would one possibly keep His Light under a bushel? A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

We cannot help but tell of the wonderful things that God has done.

If God does such a great thing for us, what kind of person would be able to hide it. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops.

I can't see how someone can have such a monumental event happen, and not share it. It's unfathomable to me

I guess the gospel is just too exciting for some and not all that exciting for others. Maybe it has to do with to whom much is forgiven, the same has much love
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Exactly the scripture I was referencing......there are two primary lines of thought on this verse..........

a. Women must bear the pain of birth as part of the curse and that in due time they will be saved from this burden
b. That a woman would bear the seed (Christ) and that through the birth of the savior their salvation would come

The Greek goes from singular (SHE) to plural (THEY) so.....I am not fully set on anything personally yet........one of those things I need more prayer and study on to fully embrace a view on to be honest
Focus on the “blood covenant”...

Mary was a virgin when she conceived the Son of God, that means her hymen was intact...so, when The Christ was born through her birth canal, who broke her hymen and entered into a blood covenant with her? None other than her Savior.......
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
YES, JESUS saved me FROM my sin.......not IN my sin

"old things pass away and behold all things become new"
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

christian's do not have to sin everyday

the reason people sin everyday is because they are a sinners!

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:14-15 (KJV)
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Paul spoke of the sin that condemned him as a Pharisee. It was sin in his thoughts and mind. Sin that no one but he and God need know about. Its strange, but many either ignore such sin or excuse it as not really sin and claim they do not commit sin. I have always wondered how they can do that.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
i was asking you that question based on your response to one of my posts in #84311
sounds like you believe that based on what you said?????
This is what I wrote:

Many different people go to church, and make confessions of faith, some do indeed walk away, and others do not. The question is, were those who walked away ever placed in a saved state? Scripture shows us they were, though they may not have had the personal salvational experience that will always keep them saved. People who Jesus said would never be lost.

But I maybe too easy going as to who I accept as Christians. I even accept as Christians people who claim they do not commit sin. As the law is in believers hearts and minds, and you cannot hide from that law, how can any truly born again Christian honestly claim they fully obey it? For as I said, that would require perfectly obeying law that only you and God need know you break. So people who claim not to commit sin must have been seduced in one way or another mustn't they. Should I not accept them as Christians?
BTW
God accepts you when you are in sin/dead in transgressions/sin(Eph2:5) then the sanctification process starts
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
This is what I wrote:

Many different people go to church, and make confessions of faith, some do indeed walk away, and others do not. The question is, were those who walked away ever placed in a saved state? Scripture shows us they were, though they may not have had the personal salvational experience that will always keep them saved. People who Jesus said would never be lost.

But I maybe too easy going as to who I accept as Christians. I even accept as Christians people who claim they do not commit sin. As the law is in believers hearts and minds, and you cannot hide from that law, how can any truly born again Christian honestly claim they fully obey it? For as I said, that would require perfectly obeying law that only you and God need know you break. So people who claim not to commit sin must have been seduced in one way or another mustn't they. Should I not accept them as Christians?
BTW
God accepts you when you are in sin/dead in transgressions/sin(Eph2:5) then the sanctification process starts
The Lord told Paul, "My Grace is sufficient for thee."