Not By Works
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That is not what you said or implied..........
WHAT YOU SAID
Goodnewsman said:
All of his disciples thought Jesus woild overthrow Rome and establish his kingdom on this Earth
WHAT YOU SAID
Goodnewsman said:
All of his disciples thought Jesus woild overthrow Rome and establish his kingdom on this Earth
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I gave a guy at BJ's club a Christmas stocking holder that he really wanted. Didn't know him from Adam. What does giving someone something have to do with knowing someone?
I also give people the Gospel all the time that I don't know. What happens next isn't up o me.
Jesus NEVER KNEW them, NEVER created a NEW heart in them, making them a NEW creation. Think of Adam "knowing" his wife.
I also give people the Gospel all the time that I don't know. What happens next isn't up o me.
Jesus NEVER KNEW them, NEVER created a NEW heart in them, making them a NEW creation. Think of Adam "knowing" his wife.
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The idea seems to be that when the Bible says someone "falls" or "fell" it always means loss of salvation.
We see this is not the case and can mean a few different things:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out from us, in order that it might be made manifest that they all are not truly of us.
In this context, John is talking about the antichrists which were the gnostics plaguing the church at this time. They were professing Christians, they went through all the rituals and works, professed Christ, but were false believers. They went out from among us (the true christians) but its not that they LOST their eternal life, but rather that they were never of us(true christians) to begin with. They PROVED they were never genuinely regenerated by the fact that they left (or fell away.)
This is one way Scriptures CAN speak of someone leaving, falling away, without someone losing their eternal life (oxymoron terms there, but bare with me, im trying to reason with conditional security people)
These are the people who go to church every sunday, the tares among the wheat. Who are not truly converted, yet on the outside are professing Christians, go through all the rituals, do all the works, yet dont believe.
Lets say one of these guys tomorrow renounces Christ, becomes an atheist. This would be a guy who "FELL AWAY" from the faith. He was identified with teh faithful, no longer does, he knew the truth, he had the truth preached to him, he had tasted the truth, he had knowledge of it, but he supressed it in unrighteousness.
One thing is: Look at all the verses, I was accused of only reading half the Bible, but it seems you are doing that very thing! If you are stuck on "judas fell judas fell judas fell". Well okay, lets say you are right. Judas fell from the faith and lost his salvation. Well WHAT ABOUT the verses that says: God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith? DID GOD FAIL with Judas? See you got to look at the entire Bible, clearly Judas' faith WAS NOT authored and finished by God!
We see this is not the case and can mean a few different things:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out from us, in order that it might be made manifest that they all are not truly of us.
In this context, John is talking about the antichrists which were the gnostics plaguing the church at this time. They were professing Christians, they went through all the rituals and works, professed Christ, but were false believers. They went out from among us (the true christians) but its not that they LOST their eternal life, but rather that they were never of us(true christians) to begin with. They PROVED they were never genuinely regenerated by the fact that they left (or fell away.)
This is one way Scriptures CAN speak of someone leaving, falling away, without someone losing their eternal life (oxymoron terms there, but bare with me, im trying to reason with conditional security people)
These are the people who go to church every sunday, the tares among the wheat. Who are not truly converted, yet on the outside are professing Christians, go through all the rituals, do all the works, yet dont believe.
Lets say one of these guys tomorrow renounces Christ, becomes an atheist. This would be a guy who "FELL AWAY" from the faith. He was identified with teh faithful, no longer does, he knew the truth, he had the truth preached to him, he had tasted the truth, he had knowledge of it, but he supressed it in unrighteousness.
One thing is: Look at all the verses, I was accused of only reading half the Bible, but it seems you are doing that very thing! If you are stuck on "judas fell judas fell judas fell". Well okay, lets say you are right. Judas fell from the faith and lost his salvation. Well WHAT ABOUT the verses that says: God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith? DID GOD FAIL with Judas? See you got to look at the entire Bible, clearly Judas' faith WAS NOT authored and finished by God!
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Amen! For Judas Iscariot, this his falling away was a permanent betrayal and for the remaining 11 disciples, their falling away was a temporary weak moment. The remaining 11 disciples were said to "fall away" in Matthew 26:31 (NASB), but this was only temporary and we see that a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity (Proverbs 24:16).
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I have met people to whom this list applies.
But fake believers who want to appear in the people but have no reality will always claim the prize with no cost.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matt 10:39
Those who grew up in the church rarely know the meaning of sacrifice for His name, and often desire to keep
secret they go to church, or pray, or testify to saving knowledge of Jesus.
There are some who will die for Jesus and have risked everything to bring glory to His name.
But certain folk think these two groups are the same. May the Lord bring sight to their blind eyes.
I go to church with people who have come out of Islam, and fled for their lives because of their testimony.
Now that is faith at work, to see His word triumph over the world and its deceptions, Amen.
But fake believers who want to appear in the people but have no reality will always claim the prize with no cost.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matt 10:39
Those who grew up in the church rarely know the meaning of sacrifice for His name, and often desire to keep
secret they go to church, or pray, or testify to saving knowledge of Jesus.
There are some who will die for Jesus and have risked everything to bring glory to His name.
But certain folk think these two groups are the same. May the Lord bring sight to their blind eyes.
I go to church with people who have come out of Islam, and fled for their lives because of their testimony.
Now that is faith at work, to see His word triumph over the world and its deceptions, Amen.
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Sorry. I bet no! I have no problems with them, I love many of them dearly!
I only mention them a lot since that is where most of the Christians I know attend and my family too!
I abandoned the movement because of the ecumenical apostasy sweeping those churches with contemporary music, soft sermons, watered down doctrine, false prophecies, disco lights and smoke machines, ALL MANNER of WORLDLY practices within the church! Not good! Last straw was when I heard a VERY questionable "song"! The music is trash in there!
I only mention them a lot since that is where most of the Christians I know attend and my family too!
I abandoned the movement because of the ecumenical apostasy sweeping those churches with contemporary music, soft sermons, watered down doctrine, false prophecies, disco lights and smoke machines, ALL MANNER of WORLDLY practices within the church! Not good! Last straw was when I heard a VERY questionable "song"! The music is trash in there!
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WOW.... I agree with you I would not walk out of that church....... I would run out.
Have you noticed any of those trends in other denominations as well? When we have the time Me and my family sing at different churches 4 revivals etc.... All different denominations and I have noticed some of those trends Creepin in to other churches as well
Have you noticed any of those trends in other denominations as well? When we have the time Me and my family sing at different churches 4 revivals etc.... All different denominations and I have noticed some of those trends Creepin in to other churches as well
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Sorry, you did not give me any Scripture that states "that ETERNAL LIFE cannot be lost, forfeited, walked away from, or misplaced?" All you did is use the definition of an English word to try to prove your point.
Did you ever think to look at what eternal life really is? Among other texts, this one might help: John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Did you ever think to look at what eternal life really is? Among other texts, this one might help: John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
There is a couple who recently started attending my church who said they had previously visited a church that had a disco light and a smoke machine and they felt like they were in a disco. I thought they were joking at first. 
I once visited a church in which the band there was rocking so hard and so loud that I was waiting for Ted Nugent to come swinging down from the rafters and start singing. lol I felt like I was at a heavy metal concert!
While growing up in the RCC, they played a large organ during the service that sounded like something off of the Munsters. I felt like I was in a morgue! Then there are also churches that go to the other extreme of teaching that the use of musical instruments during worship at church is wrong and/or evil/should be forbidden and they insist on acappella singing only.
I once visited a church in which the band there was rocking so hard and so loud that I was waiting for Ted Nugent to come swinging down from the rafters and start singing. lol I felt like I was at a heavy metal concert!
While growing up in the RCC, they played a large organ during the service that sounded like something off of the Munsters. I felt like I was in a morgue! Then there are also churches that go to the other extreme of teaching that the use of musical instruments during worship at church is wrong and/or evil/should be forbidden and they insist on acappella singing only.