Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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You might want to restudy that.....especially when Peter confesses who JESUS is by the Spirit of GOD......These men were saved, immersed and CALLED OUT, organized and called THE church twice in the present tense....and DAVID speaks of HIS salvation in the present TENSE long before the cross........
I believe that the disciples were given the anointing by Jesus "upon" them same as those like Elijah. But, it's only when we are converted that He by His Spirit dwells in us.

I know He has been with me all my life, even as a small child. But, it was one specific moment in time that I was taken from darkness to Light. And different like day and night.

He chooses us because we are foreknown. I wish I knew what all that means but someday I will. :)

I also believe that there are degrees of faith before conversion. The whosoevers. I think we all will be surprised to see all there with God. After all He died for all the world.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
WOW.... I agree with you I would not walk out of that church....... I would run out.


Have you noticed any of those trends in other denominations as well? When we have the time Me and my family sing at different churches 4 revivals etc.... All different denominations and I have noticed some of those trends Creepin in to other churches as well
Playing follow the leader is much easier than being a leader. The leaders I speak of are humans and prone to mistakes. Pride and egos prevent them from accepting the simple fact they/we don't have all the answers and the delusional among us think we do.

Sheep follow shepherds even when shepherds go off course. Shepherd and pastor means the same thing. Some goats are herdsmen too. Don't be a goat. Check the map. (read the Bible, a lot.) Question the leaders! See if they measure up. Don't blindly follow the blind or the deceivers. The only curse you, the saved, can receive is the curse of the law. We are under Grace now. It's ok.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Eternal Life - Eternal - time that never ends Life - consciousness, the ability to choose and to express
Death - the ending of life, physically, spiritually
Could one have Eternal Life, a life that will never stop ( unless things change ), and then not?
We have life now. So is Eternal Life, our Life now going on eternally.

If Eternal Life is the promise God will not stop the life we have, then if this promise is removed we no longer
have Eternal Life. You could though only tell at the point life is taken from one.

So to establish this point in scripture you have to prove God is not just saying He is promising not to take life
away from the group who believe in His Son.
i cant make heads or tails of this post

SORRY! not saying that to disrespect.

Can someone translate this to a DUMMY like me? Are you saying that eternal life is a promise that can be taken away? Or is something in the future?

Two problems: Eternal life is spoken of as a PRESENT reality, and God is the author and finisher of our faith, irrevocable gifts and promises!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I didn't tell you what I thought. All I did was quote a scripture and instead of you addressing the scripture you attacked me

Brother Dcon, do you not like me?
I am sure you are a nice guy....I cannot stand your skewed false dogma.......is salvation a gift of faith....YES or NO?

If YES

The gifts and call of GOD are IRREVOCABLE
JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith in US

HE keeps us BY HIS POWER through above faith
We are saved to the UTTERMOST
HE will NEVER leave us or forsake us
HE will lose NOTHING, but raise it up the last day
He that believes (see above faith) is HAVING everlasting life
We are sealed unto the day of redemption
WE are in the Son's hand and the Father's hand and NO man can remove us

TO say that JUDAS, or ANY MAN can lose salvation is to say...

a. The gift of faith and salvation is revocable
b. JESUS does not finish what he starts
c. We are not kept by his power
d. We are not saved to the uttermost
e. He will leave and forsake us
f. HE will Lose those that he saved, began a work of faith in and will NOT raise them up
g.He does not give everlasting life, but temporal
h. God's seal is UNDONE
I. We can remove ourselves from the HAND of CHRIST and the FATHER

WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, IT IS EVERLASTING, NOTHING can be added NOR TAKEN AWAY FROM IT and GOD DOE THIS SO MEN MAY FEAR BEFORE HIM

NO ONE will ever convince me that salvation can be lost and you guys prove your bias and lack of knowledge by what YOU DO LEAVE OUT<----THAT being the CHASTENING of the LORD

WHO does GOD chasten and WHY? <-----YOU guys always jump to the LOSS of salvation while conflating salvation with ongoing sanctification and NONE of you ever mention the fact that GOD ONLY WHIPS SONS whom he receives and WHY doe he whip them...disobedience and SIN......YET they are SONS and not BASTARDS
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Every promise of God is made conditional by reading into the text something! Eisegesis the pros call it!

John 10:27-28 the conditional security english translation from the original codex decepticus manuscripts:
My sheep hear my voice[maybe, if they choose to do so by free will], and I know them[unless they stop knowing me, or stop believing, or sin to much], and they follow me[unless they use their free will to stop following me]:
And I give unto them eternal life[maybe, if they live a good enough life and dont sin too much]; and they shall never perish[maybe, unless they apostate from the faith], neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand[except they themselves, they are excluded from the any man, since free will].

Looks like you guys are selling us DOUBT! 50% off!
I much prefer to just take the text for what it says and leave it at that:

John 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I believe that the disciples were given the anointing by Jesus "upon" them same as those like Elijah. But, it's only when we are converted that He by His Spirit dwells in us.

I know He has been with me all my life, even as a small child. But, it was one specific moment in time that I was taken from darkness to Light. And different like day and night.

He chooses us because we are foreknown. I wish I knew what all that means but someday I will. :)

I also believe that there are degrees of faith before conversion. The whosoevers. I think we all will be surprised to see all there with God. After all He died for all the world.
Sorry, I do not believe that the disciples were not saved until the 50th day.....nor do I believe that the O.T. saints were not saved....David speaks of it in the present tense.........and JESUS even told the woman, thy faith has SAVED thee, go in peace.....these men were saved and immersed and identified as a church twice in the present tense........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You know something....If one has a new phone, and one uses a different wifi, they could open a new account under a different name with a different IP address right?

Yep...............does everyone get the drift?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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MYLITTLEPROTHEATHENPETS



I see you are giving every serious Bible Student and Theologian, the Big Red X, including me. Do you ever READ their POSTS, or JUST automatically give them the Big Read X ? ? ? I am Curious, how much BIBLE Schooling have you HAD, or it is just what you get in a 10 minute Sermon? Now Be Honest with US, are you a Catholic, Catholic ? ? ?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I already covered that, througouhly!

Eternal life is knowing Jesus. OK!
Those who Jesus casts to hell He says "I never knew you" not "i used to know you"
To the sheep Jesus says they know Him and He knows them!

Therefore we can conclude, the sheep know Jesus, and are eternally secure. (I give them eternal life, they shall NEVER perish)
Notice your "therefore we can conclude" . . . You took two different Scriptures from two different contexts, compared their interpretations, and made a conclusion. You may develop your theology that way if you want; that is up to you. I prefer to develop my theology from the clear plain statements of Scripture.

I asked for a Scripture that states "that ETERNAL LIFE cannot be lost, forfeited, walked away from, or misplaced?"
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Sorry, I do not believe that the disciples were not saved until the 50th day.....nor do I believe that the O.T. saints were not saved....David speaks of it in the present tense.........and JESUS even told the woman, thy faith has SAVED thee, go in peace.....these men were saved and immersed and identified as a church twice in the present tense........
Well we do differ on some issues.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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And me being the poor o' uneducated gypsy only going by the english word eternal(its the same word in my native language too btw) as you mentioned. I decided to work my two remaining braincells and look up the word eternal in the greek, here are the three definitions:


1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be: Θεός, Romans 16:26 (ὁ μόνος αἰώνιος, 2 Macc. 1:25); πνεῦμα, Hebrews 9:14.

2. without beginning: χρόνοις αἰωνίοις, Romans 16:25; πρό χρόνων αἰωνίων, 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2; εὐαγγέλιον, a gospel whose subject-matter is eternal, i. e., the saving purpose of God adopted from eternity, Revelation 14:6.

3. without end, never to cease, everlasting: 2 Corinthians 4:18 (opposed to πρόσκαιρος); αἰώνιον αὐτόν, joined to thee forever as a sharer of the same eternal life, Philcmon 1:15; βάρος δόξης, 2 Corinthians 4:17; βασιλεία, 2 Peter 1:11; δόξα, 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Peter 5:10; ζωή (see ζωή, 2 b.); κληρονομία, Hebrews 9:15; λύτρωσις, Hebrews 9:12; παράκλησις, 2 Thessalonians 2:16;

So we got, without beginning or end, without beginning, without end.

That doesnt sound like something you can misplace or forget at the gas-station!

You can read more about the definitions and usage of the word here: https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm

I believe I have PROVEN my point that! Does eternal life mean knowing Jesus as you quoted? YES! Who know Jesus? The sheep, to whom Jesus gives eternal life, who shall NEVER perish (not maybe perish).
I believe not only have I proven the case biblically, BUT also from your first line of defense which was "the greek", it looks like that greek argument backfired on you, since it supported what i said! I notice people try me on the GREEK often times. NOT A FAN of going back to the greek, but i have to do it OCCASIONALLY!
Eternal life is always going to be eternal life: it will never change - no argument at all on that point.

I think you got the part that the noun is the most important part - that is - "life" = knowing Jesus - who is "life". And yes, you are right that "eternal" means without beginning or end, everlasting, etc. And yes, you are right that "the sheep to whom Jesus gives eternal life shall never perish" - the text says exactly that - the sheep who are hearing his voice and are knowing Him, and are following Him will never perish (John 10:27).

So I am completely baffled at your proposal that "the Greek argument backfired"?????

So we are back to the clearly stated fact in John 10: 27-29 that the sheep who are hearing Jesus, who are knowing Him, and who are following Him have the gift of eternal life, and will never perish, and no man can pluck them out of the Saviour's hand! Yes, and amen, I agree with that 100%!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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At least he must be reading the word of God first to disagree...Who is he disagreeing with ? not us but GOD...xox...

I don't see why, they can disavow Scriptures, to JUST continue to assert their belief in Dogma ? But they absolutely do.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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i cant make heads or tails of this post

SORRY! not saying that to disrespect.

Can someone translate this to a DUMMY like me? Are you saying that eternal life is a promise that can be taken away? Or is something in the future?

Two problems: Eternal life is spoken of as a PRESENT reality, and God is the author and finisher of our faith, irrevocable gifts and promises!
Life - What is life? Life is the continuing of our consciousness, our ability to make choices.
If this life continues forever then that is eternal.

Jesus said those who believe in Him will never die, or taste death.

This again is another way of saying they will not suffer the second death and the lake of fire.

If one thinks only in terms of one phrase its actual meaning can pass us by.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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And the beat goes on...
LOL! Two or three maybe - hard to follow all these voices, threads, and ideas . . .

Or did you mean you were continuing on your mail route beat?
(as in Webster's definition for "beat" : 3a a regularly traversed round)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Amen!!!! Also.....
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4 KJV

Habitual sinners that refuse to keep his Commandments does not have eternal life........ Eternal life is knowing him
as usual, legalists always go to this verse to push salvation by command keeping.

but, the same man wrote in this very letter that the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, if you are referring to any commands other than these, then you stand in disagreement with John.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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LOL! Two or three maybe - hard to follow all these voices, threads, and ideas . . .

Or did you mean you were continuing on your mail route beat?
(as in Webster's definition for "beat" : 3a a regularly traversed round)
I meant the beat goes on in this thread. My day off this week is today (I'm always off on Sunday and my other day off rotates), which gave me a 3 day weekend, thanks to the holiday yesterday. (y)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I meant the beat goes on in this thread. My day off this week is today (I'm always off on Sunday and my other day off rotates), which gave me a 3 day weekend, thanks to the holiday yesterday. (y)
Well, if you want to get anything done today you had best get off CC. You can watch this thread all day and at the end this "beat" will still be going . . . . . :D
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Life - What is life? Life is the continuing of our consciousness, our ability to make choices.
If this life continues forever then that is eternal.

Jesus said those who believe in Him will never die, or taste death.

This again is another way of saying they will not suffer the second death and the lake of fire.

If one thinks only in terms of one phrase its actual meaning can pass us by.
Sorry , but I have to ask you this as it has been on my mind when I read your post , but are you Peter Jens...xox...
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
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I gave a guy at BJ's club a Christmas stocking holder that he really wanted. Didn't know him from Adam. What does giving someone something have to do with knowing someone?
I also give people the Gospel all the time that I don't know. What happens next isn't up o me.

Jesus NEVER KNEW them, NEVER created a NEW heart in them, making them a NEW creation. Think of Adam "knowing" his wife.
So you honestly think Jesus gave Judas the power of God to cast out devil's and heal the sick but one day have to look and say......I never knew you??

Of course Jesus knew him that's why acts 1 said. "Judas by transgression fell"