Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,461
#87,461
Goodnewsman said:
I agree we should love one another. Are you loving me calling me names?

What part of 1st John 2:4 do you disagree with exactly?

The meaning of Eternal life is knowing God

John said if you say you know Him and keep not his Commandments you are a liar

Please don't get upset with the mailman when they deliver the mail to you. Keep in mind he did not write the mail..... only delivering it
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Who knows god but those born of him?

Can one be born of God and not know him?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,462
#87,462
CharliRenee said:
This is how I understand the Judas topic.


He was His, the Father gave Him, but He was an EXCEPTION. He allowed the devil to enter Him to fulfill scripture.

While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12 NASB

Why Judas? We can speculate on that but I haven't seen, yet, any reason other than to fulfill scripture. Perhaps, it was because of His heart condition, but that is unknown. It says, that at the passover satan went into Him, not before, that He belonged to Him.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching. The chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people. And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.
Luke 22:1‭-‬3 NASB

Now was He always the Son of perdition and that is why Satan entered Him? I don't know, maybe you all can show me scripture. Did He repent, it appears great lamenting and regret occurred.

But we see that He says He perished. I want it to be forgiven because he felt horrible (which he should've but he was merely fulfilling scripture) I am not the decider of such things, and just because Satan entered Him at the point of betrayal doesn't mean... wait... He says something pretty pivotal here...

Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
John 19:11 NASB

Everything points to Him having remorse but in that scripture John 17:12 we see He perished so the scripture could be fulfilled. Now does He mean Judas perished his earthly life. He did say while I was here.... and none other died before His crucifixion. I don't know, though, it says whoever believes me, will not perish. So I think the word choice being the same, He was speaking spiritual perish.

Speculation city going on. We know He (the Father) gave Judas. Scripture says that but to fulfill scripture satan entered, thus given over, now He was the son of perdition.

We can not use Judas as an example because he was an EXCEPTION and we can not question if it seems unfair because we know God is good and that He knows what He is doing. He shows mercy on who he chooses, doesn't mean He is cruel and selective for no reason. He knows the hearts of us but it seems in the case of Judas it was again to fulfill scripture.
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One of the great studies i have heard is the differwnce between peter and judas,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,463
#87,463
CharliRenee said:
Well that is clear but we see He entered Him at the passover to fulfill scripture. However, from what you just showed us in scripture it was because He was already the son of perdition and that is why satan entered Him.

Why do you think, though, DCon He regretted his choice so much, why he threw the coins back? I have always wondered that...

Ok, well there ya have it....
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He did not have remorse as peter had it,

He felt back bcause he was made a fool.

His remorse was self centered, or selfish not like peter when the lord restored him bu asking 3 times if he loved him
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,464
Jan 4, 2016
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#87,464
dcontroversal said:
I think the scripture is clear...

Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"

Is <---A be verb and shows state of being........Judas was never saved and then lost it........not the characteristics of a be verb in GREEK

eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.
HELPS Word

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is.1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being(existence, i.e. without explicit limits).

JUDAS was a DEVIL........
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So Jesus called a devil to preach???.....man you really aren't making any sense
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,465
#87,465
Budman said:
I get that impression about Goodnewsman. He reminds a lot of that guy Ralph (the one with the picture of the kid from "A Christmas Story" as his profile pic.)

Is Ralph still around?
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I do not see that, they are quite different, but i could be wrong
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,467
Jan 4, 2016
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eternally-gratefull said:
Did the liar lose salvation,

Or did he never have it? And that s why he never obeyed?

Discernment is way off on this.
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The point was the meaning of Eternal life........eternal life is simply knowing God

So God was letting us know that if habitual sinners come arguing they have eternal life based on some past experience, he said they are liars. And don't have eternal life
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#87,468
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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#87,468
Goodnewsman said:
Not lose your salvation but leave your salvation.
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Yet again, you can't "leave" of "give back" something that is not held by you at all. Our salvation is based on, and kept by, God. He guaranteed our salvation - so much so, that He said nothing in all creation can snatch us out of His hand. By saying one can walk away, or give back salvation, is to say a part of that creation (you) can do what God said can never be done.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,469
#87,469
Goodnewsman said:
The point was the meaning of Eternal life........eternal life is simply knowing God

So God was letting us know that if habitual sinners come arguing they have eternal life based on some past experience, he said they are liars. And don't have eternal life
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True,

But they did not lose eternal life, they never had it, they never knew god, even if they went to church every week their whole life

Just because someone is called a disciple does not mean they ever knew God
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,471
#87,471
Budman said:
Yet again, you can't "leave" of "give back" something that is not held by you at all. Our salvation is based on, and kept by, God. He guaranteed our salvation - so much so, that He said nothing in all creation can snatch us out of His hand. By saying one can walk away, or give back salvation, is to say a part of that creation (you) can do what God said can never be done.
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How can we leave jesus? Last i heard he was omnipresent, did not the psalmist say wherever i try to go there you are?
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,474
Jan 4, 2016
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#87,474
eternally-gratefull said:
True,

But they did not lose eternal life, they never had it, they never knew god, even if they went to church every week their whole life

Just because someone is called a disciple does not mean they ever knew God
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Ok....so are we on the same page???

Based on what you just said.... If a man is a habitual liar and sinner and says "I'm a born again Christian". Will you then concede that man is a liar?
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
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Mar 9, 2014
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#87,476
Goodnewsman said:
Ok....so are we on the same page???

Based on what you just said.... If a man is a habitual liar and sinner and says "I'm a born again Christian". Will you then concede that man is a liar?
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Well, you certainly lied when you said you don't sin every day.
 
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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,477
Jan 4, 2016
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#87,477
eternally-gratefull said:
1 john 1: 8

Plus, if you do not think yu sin every day, you need to research what true sin is.
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Does the bible not say if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh?

Does the bible not say that with every temptation he will provide a way of Escape?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,478
#87,478
Goodnewsman said:
Ok....so are we on the same page???

Based on what you just said.... If a man is a habitual liar and sinner and says "I'm a born again Christian". Will you then concede that man is a liar?
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If he lives like the world, then i would doubt he is saved, but i am not God i have no right to judge anyone.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#87,480
Mar 9, 2014
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#87,480
Goodnewsman said:
Does the bible not say if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh?

Does the bible not say that with every temptation he will provide a way of Escape?
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You do realize even Paul admitted that he was still a habitual sinner after his conversion, doncha?
 
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