Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
Life - What is life? Life is the continuing of our consciousness, our ability to make choices.
If this life continues forever then that is eternal.

Jesus said those who believe in Him will never die, or taste death.

This again is another way of saying they will not suffer the second death and the lake of fire.

If one thinks only in terms of one phrase its actual meaning can pass us by.

Peter Jens? Is this you? Or your twin?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
So you honestly think Jesus gave Judas the power of God to cast out devil's and heal the sick but one day have to look and say......I never knew you??

Of course Jesus knew him that's why acts 1 said. "Judas by transgression fell"
Somewhere I read that Judas skipped out. Was more interested in counting the money bags. ;)

Peter perceived the intent of Simon. Jesus certainly knew what Judas was about. But, scripture was being fulfilled.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,911
2,783
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i cant make heads or tails of this post

SORRY! not saying that to disrespect.

Can someone translate this to a DUMMY like me? Are you saying that eternal life is a promise that can be taken away? Or is something in the future?

Two problems: Eternal life is spoken of as a PRESENT reality, and God is the author and finisher of our faith, irrevocable gifts and promises!



I cannot see how they come up when their LOGIC. AND IT SEEMS TO BE GETTING WORSE?

But I see it is supposed to be like this in the END TIMES.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (ESV)
3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

2 Timothy 3:13 (NJB)
13 while these wicked impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others, and themselves deceived.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (HCSB)
1 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days.
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good,
4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
as usual, legalists always go to this verse to push salvation by command keeping.

but, the same man wrote in this very letter that the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, if you are referring to any commands other than these, then you stand in disagreement with John.
I agree we should love one another. Are you loving me calling me names?

What part of 1st John 2:4 do you disagree with exactly?

The meaning of Eternal life is knowing God

John said if you say you know Him and keep not his Commandments you are a liar

Please don't get upset with the mailman when they deliver the mail to you. Keep in mind he did not write the mail..... only delivering it
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,778
5,420
113
This is how I understand the Judas topic.


He was His, the Father gave Him, but He was an EXCEPTION. He allowed the devil to enter Him to fulfill scripture.

While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12 NASB

Why Judas? We can speculate on that but I haven't seen, yet, any reason other than to fulfill scripture. Perhaps, it was because of His heart condition, but that is unknown. It says, that at the passover satan went into Him, not before, that He belonged to Him.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching. The chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people. And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.
Luke 22:1‭-‬3 NASB

Now was He always the Son of perdition and that is why Satan entered Him? I don't know, maybe you all can show me scripture. Did He repent, it appears great lamenting and regret occurred.

But we see that He says He perished. I want it to be forgiven because he felt horrible (which he should've but he was merely fulfilling scripture) I am not the decider of such things, and just because Satan entered Him at the point of betrayal doesn't mean... wait... He says something pretty pivotal here...

Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
John 19:11 NASB

Everything points to Him having remorse but in that scripture John 17:12 we see He perished so the scripture could be fulfilled. Now does He mean Judas perished his earthly life. He did say while I was here.... and none other died before His crucifixion. I don't know, though, it says whoever believes me, will not perish. So I think the word choice being the same, He was speaking spiritual perish.

Speculation city going on. We know He (the Father) gave Judas. Scripture says that but to fulfill scripture satan entered, thus given over, now He was the son of perdition.

We can not use Judas as an example because he was an EXCEPTION and we can not question if it seems unfair because we know God is good and that He knows what He is doing. He shows mercy on who he chooses, doesn't mean He is cruel and selective for no reason. He knows the hearts of us but it seems in the case of Judas it was again to fulfill scripture.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,009
14,610
113
This is how I understand the Judas topic.


He was His, the Father gave Him, but He was an EXCEPTION. He allowed the devil to enter Him to fulfill scripture.

While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12 NASB

Why Judas? We can speculate on that but I haven't seen, yet, any reason other than to fulfill scripture. Perhaps, it was because of His heart condition, but that is unknown. It says, that at the passover satan went into Him, not before, that He belonged to Him.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching. The chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people. And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.
Luke 22:1‭-‬3 NASB

Now was He always the Son of perdition and that is why Satan entered Him? I don't know, maybe you all can show me scripture. Did He repent, it appears great lamenting and regret occurred.

But we see that He says He perished. I want it to be forgiven because he felt horrible (which he should've but he was merely fulfilling scripture) I am not the decider of such things, and just because Satan entered Him at the point of betrayal doesn't mean . He says something pretty pivotal here...

Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."
John 19:11 NASB

Everything points to Him having remorse but in that scripture John 17:12 we see He perished so the scripture could be fulfilled. Now does He mean Judas perished his earthly life. He did say while I was here.... and none other died before His crucifixion. I don't know, though, it says whoever believes me, will not perish. So I think the word choice being the same, He was speaking spiritual perish.

Speculation city going on. We know He (the Father) gave Judas. Scripture says that but to fulfill scripture satan entered, thus given over, now He was the son of perdition.

We can not use Judas as an example because he was an EXCEPTION and we can not question if it seems unfair because we know God is good and that He knows what He is doing. He shows mercy on who he chooses, doesn't mean He is cruel and selective for no reason. He knows the hearts of us but it seems in the case of Judas it was again to fulfill scripture.
I think the scripture is clear...

Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"

Is <---A be verb and shows state of being........Judas was never saved and then lost it........not the characteristics of a be verb in GREEK

eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.
HELPS Word

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is.1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being(existence, i.e. without explicit limits).

JUDAS was a DEVIL........
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Amen!!!! Also.....
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4 KJV

Habitual sinners that refuse to keep his Commandments does not have eternal life........ Eternal life is knowing him
Did the liar lose salvation,

Or did he never have it? And that s why he never obeyed?

Discernment is way off on this.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,778
5,420
113
I absolutely love your humble heart ...A very precious sight to our heavenly Father...xox...All the glory to God most High...xox...
Thank you so much, dear Sister. I cherish Your humble heart for Him as well. You are a precious treasure. We are so blessed with Him. Sister, it does my heart and faith good to witness your trtransparent walk here online.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
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The most important thing about eternal life is the noun which is "life". And real "life" is knowing Jesus Christ - who is the "life".

If eternal life was primarily "living forever" then we could say that unbelievers have eternal life when they burn in hell forever.

But many discussions on CC do just that to "eternal life" -- the primary interest or emphasis of "eternal life" is said to be "to live forever".

So if "eternal life" is primarily knowing Jesus, then is it possible to lose that? Back to our question: Is there a verse that says "ETERNAL LIFE cannot be lost, forfeited, walked away from, or misplaced"?
You can not focus on the word life and ignore the word eyernal

The lost are considered dead, they have eternal death, unless they are made alive

When they are made alive, they have what is called eternal life. It was never called temporary or conditional life.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,871
7,251
113
64
Florida
Like annanias and Sapphira stayed?

They lied to Holy ghost and died like fools,..........but no worries here.......they were Christian liars
Most of us will probably die as fools but we will be raised up in glory to be with the Lord. Perhaps we all are Christian liars to some degree. In the bible there is a mention about calling people fools. In the context presented it was not a good thing to do as it may bring ruin upon yourself. Yes, like yourself, I have been guilty of this as well. I am not lying about this either.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,463
3,593
113
So you honestly think Jesus gave Judas the power of God to cast out devil's and heal the sick but one day have to look and say......I never knew you??

Of course Jesus knew him that's why acts 1 said. "Judas by transgression fell"

Umm.. Yes I do. You can ask again, but I'm gonna have the same answer.

Judas' transgression was that he never believed Jesus was the Son of God. He never confessed with his mouth, nor believed in his heart.

He always refers to Jesus as "Rabbi" or "Master" but NEVER Lord. He NEVER believed.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,778
5,420
113
I think the scripture is clear...

Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"

Is <---A be verb and shows state of being........Judas was never saved and then lost it........not the characteristics of a be verb in GREEK

eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.
HELPS Word

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is.1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being(existence, i.e. without explicit limits).

JUDAS was a DEVIL........
Well that is clear but we see He entered Him at the passover to fulfill scripture. However, from what you just showed us in scripture it was because He was already the son of perdition and that is why satan entered Him.

Why do you think, though, DCon He regretted his choice so much, why he threw the coins back? I have always wondered that...

Ok, well there ya have it....
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,017
2,858
113
I agree we should love one another. Are you loving me calling me names?

What part of 1st John 2:4 do you disagree with exactly?

The meaning of Eternal life is knowing God

John said if you say you know Him and keep not his Commandments you are a liar

Please don't get upset with the mailman when they deliver the mail to you. Keep in mind he did not write the mail..... only delivering it
maybe the mailman could stop wrongly sorting the mail.

when the same man , in the same letter, states that we are to keep the commands, then goes on to state what the commands are, yet you want to take John's words and make them point elsewhere instead of actually being honest about what he says the commands are.

and, calling you legalist is not name-calling, it is telling you what you are.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,817
113
Peter Jens? Is this you? Or your twin?
I get that impression about Goodnewsman. He reminds a lot of that guy Ralph (the one with the picture of the kid from "A Christmas Story" as his profile pic.)

Is Ralph still around?