Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
You do not know a thing about GENUINE FAITH, DO YOU ? ? ? To the Messianic JEW, you must PUT YOUR WHOLE TRUST ON JESUS CHRIST; and if you Doubt, YOU DO NOT HAVE GENUINE FAITH. There is NO DOUBT AT ALL, for a person that has that KIND OF FAITH. THEREFORE YOUR EXAMPLE: believers might fear they are just religious, and if they push the truth they might lose their faith, ALREADY IS AN EXAMPLE OF
NOT HAVING GENUINE FAITH.


WE KNOW HIM INTIMATELY, WE KNOW HIM PERSONALLY, WE KNOW HIM EXPERIENTIALLY, WE KNOW HE IS IN US AND WE ARE IN HIM, AND WE KNOW HIM WITH A GOD GIVEN ETERNAL LOVE. When you KNOW HIM with that KIND OF LOVE, and THAT KIND OF TRUST, their is NO TURNING BACK, EVER. IT IS AN ETERNAL LOVE AND AN ETERNAL TRUST.

You have settled for something WAY LESS than GENUINE FAITH.
Hi vco, I posted something about people fearing to test their faith.

How have you turned this into "You do not know a thing"

You talk "we" I always talk about the group who follow Jesus, or believe.
Do you believe Jesus can change you? I am beginning to doubt you have.

But I get from your previous posts, you do not believe we can ever be righteous in the flesh.
So then having faith in Jesus would never be for transformation.

I would suggest this is a form of unbelief.
By the way I like your apparent anger and emphasis, it really makes a mark of both
condemnation, judgementalism and conviction. God bless you for this, it is both admirable
and troubling.

It also suggest you do not like trusting your faith, as you have got so angry, lol :)
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
How about you deal with my response since it came first?
I'll be waiting:)

GodsGrace101 said:


1 John 5:12-13
He that HATH THE SON,,,,HATH LIFE.....
He that HATH NOT THE SON.....HATH NOT LIFE.

This is true because the LIFE is IN THE SON.
As long as we BELIEVE (present tense) we have the ZOE LIFE.
Amen.

These things hath John written to us....that we may BELIEVE (again, present tense) on the name of the Son so that we may KNOW and we can BE SURE and SECURE in the fact that IF we BELIEVE ON THE SON....we are saved because in HIM IS THE LIFE.

Click to expand...

I have told you this before when you were Fran,

In Greek time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays.

The Greek tenses have no temporal implications, unless the context is something historical for example.

So you have no valid argument here trying to argue that "belief" is connected to the temporal.
If belief is also about transformation, those who do not believe Jesus can change them
do not have life. It blows everything else you say out of the water, sorry to say.

Every sheep knows in their DNA God is about change. When the law in written on your heart and mind,
you know what you want to do and why. But those not of His flock simply have no clue.

To them to read His law and His words is not a joy but condemnation.
I did read this actually testified by a believer, which was deeper in significance than they realised.
God bless you.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,743
3,978
113
This type of works for Salvation Gospel by JPT is dangerous, and needs to be stamped out

Thank you Penn for declaring your loyalty to a cause.
And the aggression "stamped out"

Who is anyone to judge another and declare their experience of God and way of expressing
it is so bad one would want to destroy it?

Have I said I want to destroy your faith or expression?
Does Jesus say He wants to destroy any ones faith or expression?

Jesus wants us to discover Him and walk in His ways.
You claim to go to a Nazarene church yet you are opposing a central theme
they are following. Odd that. Do you want to stamp them out?

THAT IS NOT JUDGING. THE IS DISCERNING the FALSE GOSPEL you preach.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Not with you dude.

And how about replying to my post 'with ALL THOSE verses on it?

Can't, can you?
You're a funny and sad dude.
As usual Fran you have misapplied God's word; your post, "with ALL THOSE verses on it?" are meant to be applied to a Christians on going sanctification.

All of your wonderful verses are applied to a Christians on going sanctification which everyone on this thread, "Not By Works", has gone over and over and over again with you; these verses are not related to a Christians salvation and not one word about salvation is ever mentioned in these verses. Again you have misapplied God's word.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Fran, sometimes I sit here after reading one of your posts and I think, "no, I won't put her through the ringer because she just makes it too easy". You fancy yourself some great theologian, when in fact, you are a rank amateur. You constantly get swatted down, and come back to claim your posts weren't answered.

You make demands constantly, and when your demands are met (like just now when you asked for verses, and were provided them) you move the goal post. You make false statements about your own posting history (I'm so glad CC keeps the entire history of posts) as if we can't go and check them.

You should be embarrassed, but you don't possess the humility.
Which makes me wonder and something I cannot understand is why people cling so desperately to this false teaching, and do things like "move the goal post" ad hominen attacks......some street preachers I have seen go into a rage (truly I did see this) etc.,

I guess this is the fruit of their faulty theology:unsure:
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
THAT IS NOT JUDGING. THE IS DISCERNING the FALSE GOSPEL you preach.
So transformation of the heart by Jesus is a false gospel.
Good we got that one straight. :)

What I am learning, is people come in so many different forms and expressions of
faith, yet this heart response varies so much. And some hates Gods simple word.

But as His word comes alive to me, I can only share, for I cannot know what you
are like or what shadows it awakens in your heart. I do ask, commit it all to the
Lord, and He will make your paths straight. Halleluyah.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,743
3,978
113
You do not know a thing about GENUINE FAITH, DO YOU ? ? ? To the Messianic JEW, you must PUT YOUR WHOLE TRUST ON JESUS CHRIST; and if you Doubt, YOU DO NOT HAVE GENUINE FAITH. There is NO DOUBT AT ALL, for a person that has that KIND OF FAITH. THEREFORE YOUR EXAMPLE: believers might fear they are just religious, and if they push the truth they might lose their faith, ALREADY IS AN EXAMPLE OF
NOT HAVING GENUINE FAITH.


WE KNOW HIM INTIMATELY, WE KNOW HIM PERSONALLY, WE KNOW HIM EXPERIENTIALLY, WE KNOW HE IS IN US AND WE ARE IN HIM, AND WE KNOW HIM WITH A GOD GIVEN ETERNAL LOVE. When you KNOW HIM with that KIND OF LOVE, and THAT KIND OF TRUST, their is NO TURNING BACK, EVER. IT IS AN ETERNAL LOVE AND AN ETERNAL TRUST.

You have settled for something WAY LESS than GENUINE FAITH.

Oh GEE, we have another ONE that does not believe in KNOWING JESUS Intimately and Personally.

1551549371345.jpeg
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Oh GEE, we have another ONE that does not believe in KNOWING JESUS Intimately and Personally.

View attachment 195256
Hi Vco,

I think you are scrabbling to try and find a flaw in my approach.
Our walk is always personal and intimate. I think I am pushing buttons you do not like
and do not know how to respond to. I suppose I would not if I was in your position.

My walk and sharing comes from a question. How like Jesus are we, and what is the point
of the cross and sanctification?

This has brought me back to who I am in Jesus. What I am in terms of change and how my
theology may not match my actual experience. You were changed by Jesus.
He met you, He worked in your heart, healed and turned your life around.

So my friend and brother, you know of what I speak. So Jesus can finish the work and bring
you into this Holiness, which you have walked in already and know but have not expressed.
If you cannot accept this, then you may end up denying the Lords work in your life, which
is a kind of spiritual suicide, but it seems completely possible. But I pray your eyes might
be opened, and your heart calmed, and you rest in what He has done for you, Amen.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
I will address you directly this one time only. and this is for fran also.

the reason I fight so hard is this- THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

you and others are offering another way.

there is no other way. there is no " believe in Jesus and....."

once you put the "and " in there, you just left the narrow way.

once you leave it, you are on the broad road of destruction.

I understand that it is hard to resist religion, religion says " do good and be saved ".

but, that is not the Gospel.

the Gospel- believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. and you will be saved.
Short; sweet; truth. Leads to life.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Absolutely and completely contrary to anything we have written!!!!!

Shocking you would state this!!!

View attachment 195258
Why are you shocked?
How does Jesus change us? What are we in Christ, not what does God look at us as if
we are something else?

And my language is, not you have said this, but if you believe Jesus does not change
the believer in their walk then the promise to the believer could be null and void.

Jesus says belief means eternal life.
Demons believe Jesus is the Son of God, shudder and are not saved.

So belief has to be different than what demons do.
I hope this is not a shock to you, but then who am I to wonder, I just observe.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
Wow a little surprised by this??

Do you think we are forced to bear fruit?

Jesus plainly teaches we need to abide to bear fruit, and what does He do to those branches that do not bear fruit?
He lifts them up that the sap runs freely. :) Renewed explained this so great on another thread.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
I love this, believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

This about repentance, conviction of sin, commitment to walk in righteousness and
believing your sins are forgiven through the cross.

But for some it means something different. The 4 spiritual laws leading people to
Christ are not longer accepted by many who call themselves believers.

For traditional believers this makes them apostates and heretics.
But then in this modern age, blasphemy and claiming one is a god is not looked down on.
And funnily this is from fellowships I actually know, God help them.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,492
4,255
113
Absolutely and completely contrary to anything we have written!!!!!

Shocking you would state this!!!

View attachment 195258
shocked?

you do not know him very well.

go back about a year and a half or so ago, in this same thread, and look the things he was saying in the peterjens persona ..
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Demons believe Jesus is the Son of God, shudder and are not saved.
These are the words of a dissenter, an interloper not James, so you have yet to understand the book of James.

I am shocked at your false allegations towards us, no one has stated this, therefore you bear false witness and yet you present yourself to be so amiable.

My position below remains!!!

.jpg
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
He lifts them up that the sap runs freely. :) Renewed explained this so great on another thread.
I have heard this false teaching before.
It is just saying you can be in the vine, and not dry up and be rejected, except that is
exactly what the parable says. And those who change the words of Jesus are simply false teachers.

Who do the Sheep listen to? Jesus. But it is for you to decide what you are and who you listen
to. :)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
shocked?

you do not know him very well.

go back about a year and a half or so ago, in this same thread, and look the things he was saying in the peterjens persona ..
Yes you are right. I will stop, EG was right I need to stop getting pulled in, my only choice is ignore so I do not see the rhetoric.

Thank you @gb9 ...much appreciated, why should I upset myself :unsure: for no reason,

Some people do not even know they are thirsty, so how can they even be led to water:unsure:.:(
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
These are the words of a dissenter, an interloper not James, so you have yet to understand the book of James.

I am shocked at your false allegations towards us, no one has stated this, therefore you bear false witness and yet you present yourself to be so amiable.

My position below remains!!!

View attachment 195260
Do you know the God of righteousness and truth?
Do you know the God of law and love?

Do you think the gospel of grace does not have the power to make us
literally children of the living God? But only if you repent and commit to walk in His ways.

Have you never heard this? Do you not know the word of the Lord?
Repent and be baptised, for the forgiveness of your sins.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Do not upset yourselves, your compromises with sin will just send you to hell.
Thus spoke the enemy of people and of God.

Who should you fear most? Humans or the living God, the creator of All things.
I fear the creator, because I know in His arms there is love and life eternal,
if I bow the knee and follow in His ways, Amen.