Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Amen!!!!

I so, so, appreciate you preaching salvation apart from works so firmly!!!
It's nice that you're happy to know you don't have to do anything...
But God does not agree:



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
To retain salvation? Nope. No works required because Jesus did it all. Not only to save us, but keep us saved.

Scripture?

You bet!

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

Jesus did everything required. EVERYTHING. He saved us, He keeps us, He promised. As much as you hate the idea, works have nothing to do with it. You desire so much to share the credit for your salvation, it's eating you alive. You WANT to earn it, so you can boast. Just as you have been boasting of your works since you got here (both times, I might add).

From the above scriptures, either God is lying, or you are.

I wonder which one it is?
Great verses of promise. But they apply to those who believe God can change them.
If you have no faith in Gods changing ability of sinful man, then you have no faith at all.

And without faith, Jesus will not bring to pass anything.

God will not sustain sinner to the end.
God has not cancelled sin for those who refuse to repent and walk in His ways.
Gods calling to those committed to change is irrevocable, as long as they stay in the change.

To me it is so ludicrous to have a Holy righteous God and believe He cares not about love
and righteousness in the believer. Why should He? He sends sinners to Hell to burn forever.
But you would compromise Him with ignoring obvious sin, it is so crazy.
Would you call a bucket of slop clean? Never, you would clean it first.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Speak of dishonest persons.....
Please post where I said salvation is earned.....

Salvation must be kept,,,and that has to be earned.

This woman does not say this...GOD says this and all the writers of the N.T.

Here are just a few verses....

Could you PLEASE post scripture to support your odd beliefs?



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
This is why Fran and people who attempt to keep themselves saved by trying to balance the scales of justification will never understand that "eternal salvation" cannot be kept by a system of works/merit.

Because you do not recognize our "on going sanctification." All of the good and wonderful bible verses that you posted are related and applied to a Christian's life time pursuit of holiness. There is not one verse that mention the word "salvation" in any of the verses that you posted and why? Because all of those beautiful verses are applied to our daily walk and growing to maturity in Christ.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Salvation apart from works .....absolutely.:)

Actually it is the only way to be saved.

Do you have enough faith to believe this?
How about answering to the verses I posted instead of making comments that are only YOUR opinion?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
This is why Fran and people who attempt to keep themselves saved by trying to balance the scales of justification will never understand that "eternal salvation" cannot be kept by a system of works/merit.

Because you do not recognize our "on going sanctification." All of the good and wonderful bible verses that you posted are related and applied to a Christian's life time pursuit of holiness. There is not one verse that mention the word "salvation" in any of the verses that you posted and why? Because all of those beautiful verses are applied to our daily walk and growing to maturity in Christ.
And if someone does not "walk" and heed those beautiful verses?

Will you still be saved if you stop walking with God?

Peter, an Apostle of Jesus, who knew more than any of us, said this:

2 peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returnsto wallowing in the mire.”
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
I'm not playing the verses game.

When you answer mine,,,
I WILL answer ALL of the above.
Because, apparently, you do NOT understand them...
I provided verses YOU asked for! :ROFL:

Fran, you really are one confused person.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
It's nice that you're happy to know you don't have to do anything...
But God does not agree:



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Thought you weren't playing the "verse game"? :LOL:
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Oh Fran...you do love to dig yourself into a hole, doncha?



Post #86,716 Page 4336

Yet again you have been proven the deceiver you are.
Sweet....
And you think I'd dig myself into a hole?
You're one funny and sad dude.

Did you remember to read post no. 86,862 where the comment was explained?
Guess not.

Go dig.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
This is why Fran and people who attempt to keep themselves saved by trying to balance the scales of justification will never understand that "eternal salvation" cannot be kept by a system of works/merit.

Because you do not recognize our "on going sanctification." All of the good and wonderful bible verses that you posted are related and applied to a Christian's life time pursuit of holiness. There is not one verse that mention the word "salvation" in any of the verses that you posted and why? Because all of those beautiful verses are applied to our daily walk and growing to maturity in Christ.
Amen and Amen

Thank you, we are called to pursue holiness, walk in Him, the worthy walk, because this what we were created for, where our striving ceases, not to earn salvation that transaction is closed.

Easy enough for a child to grasp.:)
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
Sweet....
And you think I'd dig myself into a hole?
You're one funny and sad dude.

Did you remember to read post no. 86,862 where the comment was explained?
Guess not.

Go dig.
Fran, you claimed you never said that. Once again I proved you a liar. And anyone can go back and look at your posts where you teach we stay saved by obedience. You do little but constantly lie. You, who love to preach obedience to everyone else, yet can't seem to obey God yourself.

Careful. Remember where scripture said all liars go....(Revelation 21:8)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,742
3,978
113
Fear of unbelief

It is strange, but believers might fear they are just religious, and if they push
the truth they might lose their faith.


But if faith is in the truth, if one does not step out in faith and discover truth
one lives in darkness and fear dominates ones heart.

You do not know a thing about GENUINE FAITH, DO YOU ? ? ? To the Messianic JEW, you must PUT YOUR WHOLE TRUST ON JESUS CHRIST; and if you Doubt, YOU DO NOT HAVE GENUINE FAITH. There is NO DOUBT AT ALL, for a person that has that KIND OF FAITH. THEREFORE YOUR EXAMPLE: believers might fear they are just religious, and if they push the truth they might lose their faith, ALREADY IS AN EXAMPLE OF
NOT HAVING GENUINE FAITH.


WE KNOW HIM INTIMATELY, WE KNOW HIM PERSONALLY, WE KNOW HIM EXPERIENTIALLY, WE KNOW HE IS IN US AND WE ARE IN HIM, AND WE KNOW HIM WITH A GOD GIVEN ETERNAL LOVE. When you KNOW HIM with that KIND OF LOVE, and THAT KIND OF TRUST, their is NO TURNING BACK, EVER. IT IS AN ETERNAL LOVE AND AN ETERNAL TRUST.

You have settled for something WAY LESS than GENUINE FAITH.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Oh Fran...you do love to dig yourself into a hole, doncha?
Post #86,716 Page 4336
Yet again you have been proven the deceiver you are.
Hi Budman, I hope I can explain something about Grace101.

We can use words to mean certain things in different sentences, and they seem
right to us, but actually may be wrong when read by others.

There is a technical name for this in linguistical language, how we build sentences.
So Grace101 is right about what she is saying, but not what she is writing.

What is painful, is when you accuse others of deceit and lying.
It hurts simply because this is not what they are doing, though I know you will probably
not believe this.

It is why this discussion is not a discussion but a dispute. And in dispute emotions run
high and the participants get corrupted by the process.

But I wonder how honest you can actually be. I always believe people have a realistic
side to them, even in disputes, if they are honest enough. I thought I would share this
because we stand on truth and the light and who we are.

God bless you.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
How about you deal with my response since it came first?
I'll be waiting:)

GodsGrace101 said:


1 John 5:12-13
He that HATH THE SON,,,,HATH LIFE.....
He that HATH NOT THE SON.....HATH NOT LIFE.

This is true because the LIFE is IN THE SON.
As long as we BELIEVE (present tense) we have the ZOE LIFE.
Amen.

These things hath John written to us....that we may BELIEVE (again, present tense) on the name of the Son so that we may KNOW and we can BE SURE and SECURE in the fact that IF we BELIEVE ON THE SON....we are saved because in HIM IS THE LIFE.

Click to expand...

I have told you this before when you were Fran,

In Greek time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays.

The Greek tenses have no temporal implications, unless the context is something historical for example.

So you have no valid argument here trying to argue that "belief" is connected to the temporal.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Faith is a gift from God given by His grace throught the instrument of faith.
Cannot be earned.
In this verse, Salvation is the gift, the Greek makes this clear.

Nice attempt to twist though, I do give you credit for that.

It is salvation that cannot be earned.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
Can't, can you?
You're a funny and sad dude.

Fran, sometimes I sit here after reading one of your posts and I think, "no, I won't put her through the ringer because she just makes it too easy". You fancy yourself some great theologian, when in fact, you are a rank amateur. You constantly get swatted down, and come back to claim your posts weren't answered.

You make demands constantly, and when your demands are met (like just now when you asked for verses, and were provided them) you move the goal post. You make false statements about your own posting history (I'm so glad CC keeps the entire history of posts) as if we can't go and check them.

You should be embarrassed, but you don't possess the humility.