Not By Works

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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
Do any of you guys against works ever answer posts?

Maybe you can't ........?
There you go, being deceptive again.

None of us are against works! We're simply saying works do not save us, nor keep us saved.

Get it?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
And Yes. I'm sorry
because you have your own special gospel that you believe and hold dear to.
I pray for you to come to the realization of what God's Word teaches.
Says the woman who teaches salvation must be earned.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Fear of unbelief

It is strange, but believers might fear they are just religious, and if they push
the truth they might lose their faith.

But if faith is in the truth, if one does not step out in faith and discover truth
one lives in darkness and fear dominates ones heart.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
There you go, being deceptive again.
None of us are against works! We're simply saying works do not save us, nor keep us saved.
Get it?
What you are against is anyone who seems by your view to be evil and a hypocrite.
We know what you are, because the fruit of your lips speak of your heart.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Yeah.
Works are bad.....
bad
bad
bad


BTW....did Moses lead those Israelites out of Egypt?
Was that a work?

Did he part the Red Sea (well, it wasn't really the Red Sea)
Was that a work?

What about those 10 commandments....
Are they a work?

Did Adam have to keep the Garden...BEFORE the fall....
Is that a work?


Looks like WORKS are throughout the entire bible....
@cv5


Bump.


Are you going to answer the above?
Looks like you're like those "trolls" that just read except you make weird comments to.

Mathew 7:5
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
There you go, being deceptive again.

None of us are against works! We're simply saying works do not save us, nor keep us saved.

Get it?
Oh really.

Please show me some scripture that says we are not required to obey God or to do any works after salvation.

Or maybe you could answer to the following:


“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they
disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)
Disobedience proves Unbelief --- Unbelief causes Disobedience

And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who
disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (
Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)

“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God …
so that none of you will be deceived by sin
and hardened against God.” (
Hebrews 3:12)
If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with
an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

Do you not know that
if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either
(slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR
(slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Slaves of obedience > eternal life --- Slaves of sin > eternal death

Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God.
But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”

(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders
as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,
and Origen. It was probably the most popular book
in the Christian
church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

Afterward they will receive the crown of life
that God has promised to those who love Him.” (
James 1:12)
The “crown of life” means eternal life.

You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die
!” (John 8:31, 51)

Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (
Matthew 28:19-20)

We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (
Revelation 2:26)

The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (
Revelation 12:17)

So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

Question:
Must one love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven?

If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (
John 14:21-24)

When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages, God said He would show
mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Says the woman who teaches salvation must be earned.
Speak of dishonest persons.....
Please post where I said salvation is earned.....

Salvation must be kept,,,and that has to be earned.

This woman does not say this...GOD says this and all the writers of the N.T.

Here are just a few verses....

Could you PLEASE post scripture to support your odd beliefs?



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
but fruit bearing means nothing.
Never stated this.


we just all do what we want to do.
Never stated this.


There is no evidence of salvation
Never stated this.

you have your own special gospel
I have the only Gospel, saved by grace through faith and I do not add to what is plainly stated.

That is the only truth that truly magnifies God and the true Gospel of grace, not the Lordship salvation stuff that is added in.

Jesus is very clear to bear fruit we abide in Him, bearing fruit is not indicative of salvation but our life in Him and abiding.

And He deals with those who do not abide.

The lordship salvationists think they are putting God in control when actually they deny human will and how God deals with us as individuals and ultimately it destroys the grace message.

In the "will/must bear fruit schema" as opposed to the correct "should bear fruit" schema would make many people at Corinth unsaved.

And you know what @dcontroversal was right sometimes it can take a lifetime to bear fruit because that is how long it takes for some people to learn how to abide.

So then how long do we wait for this will have evidence/fruit before people pronounce judgement on a person?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Do any of you guys against works ever answer posts?

Maybe you can't ........?
Okay I'm opposed to works for eternal salvation because the bible say's; "we are saved by grace, "Not By Works" lest anyone should boast, 'it is a gift of God", and if you can work for a "gift" it is no longer a "gift" but something you can earn or merit by working. "Neither can eternal salvation be kept by works or merit" A pretty simple concept that a smart woman can understand but not always agree with right?

I know your answer already; "this isn't the answer you were looking for right?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Never stated this.




Never stated this.




Never stated this.



I have the only Gospel, saved by grace through faith and I do not add to what is plainly stated.

That is the only truth that truly magnifies God and the true Gospel of grace, not the Lordship salvation stuff that is added in.

Jesus is very clear to bear fruit we abide in Him, bearing fruit is not indicative of salvation but our life in Him and abiding.

And He deals with those who do not abide.

The lordship salvationists think they are putting God in control when actually they deny human will and how God deals with us as individuals and ultimately it destroys the grace message.

In the "will/must bear fruit schema" as opposed to the correct "should bear fruit" schema would make many people at Corinth unsaved.

And you know what @dcontroversal was right sometimes it can take a lifetime to bear fruit because that is how long it takes for some people to learn how to abide.

So then how long do we wait for this will have evidence/fruit before people pronounce judgement on a person?
Lordship salvation?

Here's my advice....
stop watching YouTube and start reading your N.T. every single day till you really understand it.
and your only mentor should be JESUS,,,not some man.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Lordship salvation?

Here's my advice....
stop watching YouTube and start reading your N.T. every single day till you really understand it.
and your only mentor should be JESUS,,,not some man.
There you go with all your assumptions, which I find very ironic since you espouse the teachings of a denomination and I do not.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Okay I'm opposed to works for eternal salvation because the bible say's; "we are saved by grace, "Not By Works" lest anyone should boast, 'it is a gift of God", and if you can work for a "gift" it is no longer a "gift" but something you can earn or merit by working. "Neither can eternal salvation be kept by works or merit" A pretty simple concept that a smart woman can understand but not always agree with right?

I know your answer already; "this isn't the answer you were looking for right?
Are you saying salvation is a gift?
FAITH is the gift.
And you do love to leave out
Ephesians 2:10
Why is that?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,996
113
Oh really.

Please show me some scripture that says we are not required to obey God or to do any works after salvation.
To retain salvation? Nope. No works required because Jesus did it all. Not only to save us, but keep us saved.

Scripture?

You bet!

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

Jesus did everything required. EVERYTHING. He saved us, He keeps us, He promised. As much as you hate the idea, works have nothing to do with it. You desire so much to share the credit for your salvation, it's eating you alive. You WANT to earn it, so you can boast. Just as you have been boasting of your works since you got here (both times, I might add).

From the above scriptures, either God is lying, or you are.

I wonder which one it is?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Speak of dishonest persons.....
Please post where I said salvation is earned.....

Salvation must be kept,,,and that has to be earned.

This woman does not say this...GOD says this and all the writers of the N.T.

Here are just a few verses....

Could you PLEASE post scripture to support your odd beliefs?



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
Salvation must be kept,,,and that has to be earned.

This sentence could be miss-understood.
Salvation - our walk, must be kept, and our walk has to be performed ( earned )

If the same word is used in different places with different contexts or emphasis
it is hard for the reader to see the difference.

So some could say you are contradicting yourself, because your inner voice knows
the difference but the written version looks the same.

Does this help sister?
I have seen this criticism by some readers, and they think you are contradicting
yourself, but I know you are not. God bless.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
There you go with all your assumptions, which I find very ironic since you espouse the teachings of a denomination and I do not.
Maybe you should join a mainline denomination.
It might be of help to you....to sort out what Jesus taught.
To find out what a disciple is...
To find out what it means to FOLLOW HIM.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
To retain salvation? Nope. No works required because Jesus did it all. Not only to save us, but keep us saved.

Scripture?

You bet!

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

Jesus did everything required. EVERYTHING. He saved us, He keeps us, He promised. As much as you hate the idea, works have nothing to do with it. You desire so much to share the credit for your salvation, it's eating you alive. You WANT to earn it, so you can boast. Just as you have been boasting of your works since you got here (both times, I might add).

From the above scriptures, either God is lying, or you are.

I wonder which one it is?
I'm not playing the verses game.

When you answer mine,,,
I WILL answer ALL of the above.
Because, apparently, you do NOT understand them...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Maybe you should join a mainline denomination.
It might be of help to you....to sort out what Jesus taught.
To find out what a disciple is...
To find out what it means to FOLLOW HIM.
More assumptions...."denominations" are not in the Bible btw....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Jesus did everything required. EVERYTHING. He saved us, He keeps us, He promised. As much as you hate the idea, works have nothing to do with it. You desire so much to share the credit for your salvation, it's eating you alive. You WANT to earn it, so you can boast. Just as you have been boasting of your works since you got here (both times, I might add).

Amen!!!!

I so, so, appreciate you preaching salvation apart from works so firmly!!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Okay I'm opposed to works for eternal salvation because the bible say's; "we are saved by grace, "Not By Works" lest anyone should boast, 'it is a gift of God", and if you can work for a "gift" it is no longer a "gift" but something you can earn or merit by working. "Neither can eternal salvation be kept by works or merit" A pretty simple concept that a smart woman can understand but not always agree with right?

I know your answer already; "this isn't the answer you were looking for right?
I love this verse. But in this response is also missing change, and transformation.
The subject of grace is by faith, yet for some it is just a blanket excuse for failure and bondage to sin.

Our commitment to God through repentance is to stop evil and walk in His ways.
At every baptism I know, people commit themselves to walk in righteousness and avoid evil.

It is the faith that Jesus can help us overcome in our walk, lead us into the ways everlasting.

To walk in evil is to deny this very change and the walk and the Kingdom.
So to have a faith where walking is irrelevant, of course denying the Kingdom is impossible.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Salvation must be kept,,,and that has to be earned.

This sentence could be miss-understood.
Salvation - our walk, must be kept, and our walk has to be performed ( earned )

If the same word is used in different places with different contexts or emphasis
it is hard for the reader to see the difference.

So some could say you are contradicting yourself, because your inner voice knows
the difference but the written version looks the same.

Does this help sister?
I have seen this criticism by some readers, and they think you are contradicting
yourself, but I know you are not. God bless.
You're right. I see a big difference.


It's like getting a girl.
You get the girl....
But now you have to KEEP the girl....

What worked to GET HER...
Won't work to KEEP HER...

Salvation is free.
Faith is a gift from God given by His grace throught the instrument of faith.
Cannot be earned.


Once we're saved...we are required to obey God...

Don't know how to make it clearer than this.

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Disobedience to God's commandments is a sure sign that one is not truly saved.


This is what the early Christians did when they learned about Jesus:

Acts 2:41-42
41So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
42They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.



Do some here actually think all the Apostles taught was to "believe"?
Do they even know what believe means???
I don't think so.