Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
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Paul's fate was written in diamonds - and so are all of those whose names whom God has chosen and written in His Book...
Just tell me this...
Do you believe in OSAS
or do you believe in eternal security, based on God's condition.
or do you believe in perseverance of the saints.

I'm finding that it's important to understand the difference since a concept that did not exist before the reformation is becoming ingrained in our Christianity...
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,342
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dc, Brother, I think u have gone to far at this point, and would truly benefit if you abolished this game...:):)
if u decline, then of course, as we have learned, we WILL REAP what we sow...(V)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
My error was to not know the enemy or their tactics.
Bit bad when it all comes clear and the birds come home to roost

It is always a mistake to not see a hard heart to whom love means nothing, only wrapped
in theological jargon and the attempt to abuse others, while trying to control their anger
and not let it show, or else the whole house falls down :love::LOL::ROFL:

We are the children of the living God and know His ways and walk in them, as a Holy,
Righteous, Blameless witness before man and God, Amen, Praise His Name.
Talk about dishonesty......

We were discussing the epistle of James...it was written by Jesus' brother.
Jesus family also thought He was a bit off the wall,
I remember that we were not discussing this aspect of James....

There is no forgiveness here.....from those that claim to know Jesus and His teachings.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
He also doesn't represent the Words of Jesus.

But if not working sounds good to you,,,,keep on.
Jesus said that those who love Him will obey Him.
While reading the N.T. did you come across any directions Jesus might have given?
@star

No reply to the above?
This is so typical.
Why respond at all then?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,751
782
113
Just tell me this...
Do you believe in OSAS
or do you believe in eternal security, based on God's condition.
or do you believe in perseverance of the saints.

I'm finding that it's important to understand the difference since a concept that did not exist before the reformation is becoming ingrained in our Christianity...
John 6:37 & 39 predate the "reformation" my friend....
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,342
1,747
113
we both believe in God's Eternal Security as long as His
Just tell me this...
Do you believe in OSAS
or do you believe in eternal security, based on God's condition.
or do you believe in perseverance of the saints.

I'm finding that it's important to understand the difference since a concept that did not exist before the reformation is becoming ingrained in our Christianity...
=================================================================
we Believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour! anything else/concept, is soley (man-made=manufactured)
May Yeshua have mercy, amen...
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
John 6:37 & 39 predate the "reformation" my friend....
It says we're saved forever?
How??? I don't see this in these verses.

Why did NO ONE prior to the "reformation" believe in any type of permanent security but it depended on our reply to God's commandments?
Those that learned from the Apostles did NOT believe in a permanent security...were they dumb?
Or do you think YOU know more than they did?
Were there no theologians before Luther and Calvin and Knox, etc.?



John 6:37-40 Jesus said.
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
we both believe in God's Eternal Security as long as His
=================================================================
we Believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour! anything else/concept, is soley (man-made=manufactured)
May Yeshua have mercy, amen...
Who is WE?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,751
782
113
It says we're saved forever?
How??? I don't see this in these verses.

Why did NO ONE prior to the "reformation" believe in any type of permanent security but it depended on our reply to God's commandments?
Those that learned from the Apostles did NOT believe in a permanent security...were they dumb?
Or do you think YOU know more than they did?
Were there no theologians before Luther and Calvin and Knox, etc.?



John 6:37-40 Jesus said.
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Yes, that is exactly what Jesus says. Without doubt or reservation or limitation....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Yes, that is exactly what Jesus says. Without doubt or reservation or limitation....
WHAT did Jesus say there?
I don't understand it......
Could you explain it like to a kindergartener?
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,342
1,747
113
1 JOHN 3:14.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we Love the Brethren.
He that loveth not his Brother abideth in death.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
It says we're saved forever?
How??? I don't see this in these verses.

Why did NO ONE prior to the "reformation" believe in any type of permanent security but it depended on our reply to God's commandments?
Those that learned from the Apostles did NOT believe in a permanent security...were they dumb?
Or do you think YOU know more than they did?
Were there no theologians before Luther and Calvin and Knox, etc.?



John 6:37-40 Jesus said.
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
If the Kingdom of God defines itself by two principles love and doing Gods will,
then His people must to the same.

Now if His people do not love or follow His will they are no longer His people, even
though at one time they might be.

To have free will is to be able to choose. To know love is to be able to hate but choose
not to. So innate within the Kingdom is the potential for death and Hell.

Anyone who has not realised this is the foundation of the Kingdom has not walked in it.
It is how Jesus deals with us, and communes.

Jesus is simple. He does not judge, His words He has spoken will judge. It is because His
words are plain, it is our unbelief and the shock of what they imply that we find too hard.

But Jesus has made a way to a King just to see you drop dead. Holiness is terrible, dangerous,
deadly, fearful, destructive, impossible. But the arrogance and conceit of some is breath taking,
not because it affects us, but because it will affect them and their eternal judgement.

I am very careful, and I know not careful enough. I am weak and broken, a humble servant of
my King. I have no pride only awe and wonder at His word that flows daily through my heart.
But resist the word of God, you take your fate and judgement into your own hands.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
912
891
93
@star

No reply to the above?
This is so typical.
Why respond at all then?
Who said we were not to work or to obey Jesus? Work because we want to do for Him. Obey as best we can, which we can only do by the Holy Spirit within us. What we cannot do is to work to "keep our salvation." What we cannot do is to obey Him under our own strength 24/7. The most important thing is our "motive" whenever we do anything for God. Is our motive to get praise or is our motive to be used as His instrument.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
912
891
93
Amen Star....and many wonderful truths found in it and stances against those that devalue Jesus, his faith, his power, his promises by peddling a losable salvation that must be maintained by self effort!!
This thread has shown me much about how the Words of God can be twisted, taken out of context, used to support personal agendas. Also the judgmental, holier than thouers. I've learned quite a bit.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,921
2,790
113
If the Kingdom of God defines itself by two principles love and doing Gods will,
then His people must to the same.

. . . . .


Now while you are thinking you got that one RIGHT, let me show you that there are NOT two principles, but rather ONLY ONE.

You see with TRUE LOVE, Doing what Pleases another, is ALWAYS TRUE LOVE.


1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,330
5,945
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Here's what Jesus said;

...“If you love me, you will obey what I command. John 14:15

Now tell me where i and the others said something about working for our own salvation.
John 14:15 - “If you love Me, you will "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch) My commandments. - https://biblehub.com/greek/5083.htm

Working for salvation (primarily salvation maintained by works) is implied throughout yours and others posts: #81,925; #86,537; #88,465; #88,475; 88,487; #89,008; #89,788; #90,041; #90,299; #90,391; #90,425; #90,600; #90,668; #90,829 etc.. etc..

In the past on Christian Chat, I've had discussions with multiple works-salvationists and here are some quotes from them below:

Roman Catholic - "We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father."

Church of Christ (Campbellism) - "It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

Seventh Day Adventist - "There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,751
782
113
WHAT did Jesus say there?
I don't understand it......
Could you explain it like to a kindergartener?
Nobody needs an interpreter to recognize and realize and apprehend the absolutist non-arbitrary utterly inflexible nature of these proclamations and promises...

John 6, 35-40

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,330
5,945
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believe- to think to be true, to place confidence in, to be persuaded of.

obey- to submit what is heard, to change one's conduct to God's standards.
'so, no, they do not mean the same thing.

one ( belief ) produces salvation.

one ( obey ) is done as a RESULT of belief.
Works-salvationists cannot grasp this truth and basically "define" faith/believe "as" obedience/works. Saved through faith ends up as saved through faith AND works. Been there, done that, prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
James was not a believer until after the resurrection....you should study more because you constantly say things that are false....and twisting the context of James to peddle a works based salvation is just one of the many errors you peddle!!
Interesting proposition. Were any of the disciples true believers before pentecost?
Why are you so agressive? You talk as if James time of coming to faith was significant.
James is significant because he wrote a letter that is part of scripture, and he believed God.