believe- to think to be true, to place confidence in, to be persuaded of.
obey- to submit what is heard, to change one's conduct to God's standards.
'so, no, they do not mean the same thing.
one ( belief ) produces salvation.
one ( obey ) is done as a RESULT of belief.
Believe and obey carries the same meaning....
but you could go ahead and fight it forever....
Probably because it's more comforting to you NOT to obey...
OR
Why fight it so constantly?
The following shows how incorrect you are.
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Does It Matter If John 3:16 Is About Obedience Not Belief?
There is a huge difference theologically between obey, comply, trust on one side and belief on the other.
Jesus discussed once this distinction. Jesus said it is incongruous to think you can say you believe in Him as Lord but feel free to disobey Him. Jesus said: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46.) Jesus therefore declares it is unfathomable that one thinks it is enough to believe in Him but not obey Him.
Another proof of a large chasm of difference between mere belief and obedience comes from the gospel accounts about demons.
Demons believe Jesus is Lord and Savior. (
Mark 1:24;
Luke 4:34. See also,
James 2:19.) The demons, however, do not obey Jesus as Lord. They do not act in compliance with their acknowledgment of the fact of who Jesus is. They do not trust Him. They do not obey Him.
Pastor Stedman, an evangelical scholar who believes in ‘faith alone,’ unwittingly admits this distinction:
Remember that back in the Gospel accounts there were demons that acknowledged the deity of the Lord Jesus? When he appeared before them they said, ‘We know who you are, the Holy One of God.’ (cf,
Mark 1:24,
Luke 4:34.) They acknowledged what the Jews were too blind to see, the full deity of Jesus Christ, as well as his humanity. But, though demons acknowledged this, they never confessed it. They never trusted him.
They did not commit themselves to him, they did not live by this truth.
6
Yet, we are told that John 3:16 proves that if you believe Jesus is Lord, Messiah, died for your sins, etc., then you shall have eternal life. If this were true, then the
demons should be saved because they believe and know these things are true. (Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34.) James made a similar point in James 2:19. He says the demons believe the facts about God, but they are not saved thereby.
Hence, when we consider Jesus’ dismay that people think they can call Him Lord but that obedience is optional, we are justified questioning John 3:16 in standard translation because it licenses that doctrine for so many.
Reliable Dictionary Meanings Of Pisteuo In John 3:16 As Obey
The most exhaustive dictionary of ancient Greek is Liddell-Scott’s Lexicon. It is by far the most reliable.
There are
six meanings offered in Liddell-Scott’s Lexicon
of the Greek verb pisteuo at issue in John 3:16.7
One meaning in Liddell-Scott for the verb
pisteuo is
comply. A synonym is
obey. (See Footnote 7, page
423.)
The
NIV Theological Dictionary of New Testament Words (Zondervan: 2000) has this likewise to say of
pisteuo:
Similarly,
pisteuo means to trust something or someone; it can refer to and confirm legendary tales and mythical ideas.
With reference to people, pisteuo means to obey (Soph. OT 625) [i.e., Sophocles,Oedipus Tyrannus, 625]; the pass[ive] Means to enjoy trust...
[2014 INSERT in yellow highlight: See quote from this portion under NIDNTT on
Precept Austin.org. The reference "pisteuo means obey" has a google hit to the 2011 edition of Grimm Wilke's
Clavis Novi Testamenti, a famous Greek to Latin Lexicon of the 1800s revised by the famous Joseph Thayer & others, but there is no preview page. See
our google search of those exact words pulling up this 2011 edition. In Sophocles,
Oedipus Tyrannus 625 where this classic Greek usage is referenced, Creon in the online Perseus translation asks
"are you willing to yield or believe?" (where 'yield' is pisteuo meaning obey = yield). Oedipus responds: "no, for you persuade me you are unworthy of trust."
Storr agrees on the yield (obey) translation as the correct choice over "believe." Other translations render Creon's pisteuo synonymously as "listen to me," again pointing to an obedience-meaning. See
Johnston. Also, we find Liddell Scott, one of today's most authoritative
Lexicons, that pisteuo means "to believe, trust, comply, obey." See,
A Lexicon Abridged from Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon (24th Ed.) (ed. Rev. James A. Whiton, Ph.D.) (N.Y.: Harper & Brothers, 1891) at
561, Def. 1.2.)
[Similarly, the related adjective term "pistos" -- which some prefer to render as "faithful" to suit one's auditory senses - is clearly used by Jesus in Matthew 25:21 to mean "obedient." It can have a synonymous meaning of "trustworthy."
However, 'faithful' is apparently chosen in translations solely to placate faith-alone doctrine because then some suggest "faithful" means "full of faith" when it simply means "trustworthy" -- a synonymn for "obedient." Rarely does it mean someone is "full of faith." This is explained in Murray J. Harris'
Slave of Christ: A New Testament Metaphor for Total Devotion to Christ (Intervarsity Press, 2001) at page
96 including footnote 16 -- "a
perfectly obedient slave was a completely faithful slave", and Bultman says "
in classical Greek pistos had the nuance of obedient and pisteuin [i.e., the verb translated often as 'believe] had the nuance 'to obey.'" Cf. Daniel J. Harrington, Ed. The Gospel of Matthew at
343 ("The idea of
pistos is more 'reliable, trustworthy' than 'believing.'"See also Matthew 23:23, where Jesus says the Pharisees taught tithing but omitted justice, mercy and the noun
pistin.
Previously, this used to be rendered as "faith," but now, with scholarship, it is rendered as "faithfulness" (meaning sincere obedience).]
This is likewise mentioned in the highly authoritative Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT) 6 (1968): 4-7, in an entry by Bultmann (1884-1976) — the eminent Lutheran scholar — in which he says the verb “pisteuo means” (among other things) “‘to trust’” and “also ‘to obey.’” (It is both enlightening and disturbing to watch how ‘cheap grace adherents cope with this dictionary entry despite the TDNT being one of the most authoritative and scholarly dictionary references within Protestantism.)8
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You see gb9.....and I hope
@mailmandan sees this too....
It's not that I don't LIKE biblical Greek....it's that I understand how complicated it is that I say we should keep away from it......WHY? Because if we want to be intellectually honest...
the above comes through just from reading the N.T. and what Jesus taught...
No Greek Necessary.
I do hope you read it,,,
It might be uncomfortable but it's true.