Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Really!
There are persons right on this thread that have clearly stated we could continue to live a life of sin and still be saved.

BTW,,, Charles Stanley has said this more than one time...
He states that one could become an unbeliever and return to a life of sin and he is still saved.

Maybe you didn't know this.... (and Stanley is not the only one).

Some may like this watered down gospel...
I like the gospel of Jesus and this is NOT what He taught.
No one has said this....and you are a previously banned member back under a different name breaking the rules while peddling obeying to stay saved.....and again proving your dishonesty.....
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I would say that legalists say that you can keep this 24/7.
That is why they are called legalists
Or as some like to say "Pharisees"

Those who say you cannot keep 24/7 I would say are realist's.
That does not necessarily mean that they want to sin but know they can sin.

I'm not aware of anyone here who you define as legalists have said "If you fail once and deny Jesus then you lose your salvation"

What I have seen is that they say "You break one law then you break them all"
Maybe by inference or infact said "If you rely on 24/7 keeping to be saved and yet do not then by your definition you have lost your salvation"

What I have found is that those I would define as legalists (hard core ones) when challenged about sin, the sin of omission or unknown sins they excuse this as being "I did no I sinned therefore it does not count"

To me that's a very lame excuse.
Sin is sin.
Everyone of us should be seeking God to reveal in us when we have sinned but don't know we have.

The goats ask Jesus "When did we?

Jesus replies “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me"

The fact is that grace covers all sin and faith alone is everything.
Paul addressed this in Romans.
Yes where sin abounds so does grace, but for goodness sake don't use it as an excuse to sin. That's not the purpose of grace.
It's purpose is to set you free from it.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Language matters as well as focus.
The focus is our hearts, and following Jesus. Cleanse the heart, follow Jesus.
Issues as they arise, can be worked through by repentance, confession and commitment.

The belief is this does not matter, the heart is impenetrable, and grace covers the continual
failure. But what matters is what we are, in truth. Are we our hearts or are we just spirits?

Paul says we are a new creation. He says we are purified, cleansed of all unrighteousness, forgiven.
With a rotten heart, unresolved and destroying ourselves through worldly passions, this image does
not match. What I hear is this is reality, and to be a believer is just to accept that.

Do you think the creator of the universe died on the cross to provide this compromise.
What does Paul say

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
titus 2:11-14

Jesus's promise is real purity and real freedom but we have to have faith and be taught.
Legalists will claim many sins to condemn the righteous, yet they themselves commit "big sins"

So I hear many who say they are not legalists, create rules that even God has not created, which
condemn people as sinners continually. They are more strong than even the enemy.
Did not satan consider Job as being righteous? Odd if righteousness and righteous walking is
so impossible. Did not Jesus say His disciples were clean? Did He declare them Holy and pure?

Yet I am condemned as impossible to walk in Gods ways on this earth, while Paul described
the disciples he was writing to as Holy, pure, blameless. The delusion is the impossibility of
walking Jesus's ways, because the Holy Spirit has not given believers the vision or insight.
Is it possible these believers actually live in unbelief and do not recognise it?

A heart bound by sin, struggling and failing to conquer issues in their own strength and claiming
God is not interested. Sounds remarkably like unbelief to me. If you are caught by sin, repent,
confess and accept Jesus's ways. If not, you are in His ways, continue in them. This is discipleship
101. Is it really that hard? Maybe being in a church too long, the words are not real, and one
is trying and not being. If Jesus came and stood before you, you felt His wounds and side, would
you be different? You can do it, if you truly believe.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Your statement was false......James was not with Jesus during his ministry and if you actually knew the bible like you peddle that you do, you would know why I said what I said.....

John 7:5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him
Do you believe the book of James was written by Jesus' brother?
We were discussing the book of James...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Fran you do not qualify to criticize anyone for anything -- go back and admit you have deceived this entire forum and then say what you want, until then "you have no voice", on this forum. You were banned because the powers to be on this forum wanted you to leave. You need to abide by their decision.
Interesting argument. You do not know who this member is, yet you believe you do.
This is a theological discussion. No member carries any authority, only Jesus does.
Yet you speak as if one is justified by behaviour and not Christ. Odd that this is not
the gospel you claim to follow. Maybe you are a closet legalist pretending to believe
in grace.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
914
898
93
Really!
There are persons right on this thread that have clearly stated we could continue to live a life of sin and still be saved.

BTW,,, Charles Stanley has said this more than one time...
He states that one could become an unbeliever and return to a life of sin and he is still saved.

Maybe you didn't know this.... (and Stanley is not the only one).

Some may like this watered down gospel...
I like the gospel of Jesus and this is NOT what He taught.
Oh now I see. You are one of those on here to believes one must work daily to keep their salvation. As for Dr. Stanley, I admire his humility and his words he speaks directly from the Word of God
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Fran you do not qualify to criticize anyone for anything -- go back and admit you have deceived this entire forum and then say what you want, until then "you have no voice", on this forum. You were banned because the powers to be on this forum wanted you to leave. You need to abide by their decision.
I quality as much as anyone here.
"Let he that hath no sin cast the first stone...."

Sound familiar?
Do YOU have no sin?
Then worry about YOUR sins and not mine.
Thanks.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Oh now I see. You are one of those on here to believes one must work daily to keep their salvation. As for Dr. Stanley, I admire his humility and his words he speaks directly from the Word of God
He also doesn't represent the Words of Jesus.

But if not working sounds good to you,,,,keep on.
Jesus said that those who love Him will obey Him.
While reading the N.T. did you come across any directions Jesus might have given?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Oh now I see. You are one of those on here to believes one must work daily to keep their salvation. As for Dr. Stanley, I admire his humility and his words he speaks directly from the Word of God
This phrase to work to keep their salvation.

This is so disingenuous. A child of God loves people and loves God.
To betray either is to walk away, it is their heart to stay in Christ and worship the King.

To suggest a betrayal is inevitable, and it is a farce to resist its inevitability is simply unbelief.
Jesus declares His sheep He never lets go of. I thought you believed this, or maybe another
version, his sinful rebellious people who hate Him, He never lets go.

It is lunacy to not see Israel saved from Egypt, largely destroyed and judged in the desert.
You rebel, you die. God is impartial and has no faviouritism. Do not harden your hearts.

For God does not show favoritism.
Rom 2:11

But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Heb 3:13

I can speak the word of God, yet those who claim to listen and know rebel and reject.
They are already hard, and even if Jesus came and spoke the answer would be the same.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,758
784
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Amen.....grace or works and it is obviously not by works.......

Grace through faith <--only way to be saved eternally

Grace/faith plus works <---to gain, keep, top off, finish etc....hell to pay....false gospel no power double cursed and all that believe it are fools and bewitched
I think that the Works Righteousness crowd are disturbed and/or offended by the foreordained/free gracious underserved Gift concept/reality.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,366
1,755
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Praise God that most will dwell in His love and be happy to and will not desert Him.

Of course Paul persevered till the end....We know the end of the story.

However, you're not hitting on the point you were making....
It was POSSIBLE for Paul NOT to have made it to the end.
HE, HIMSELF, was a bit worried he might not (for whatever reason).

And you mention the word perseverance.
I hope you don't mean perseverance of the saints...
But I must say that P of the S is the MOST unsecure form of soteriology available for us in which to believe.

Those that believe in P of the S will not know till the END of their lifetime whether or not they have persevered....and thus are truly a lucky chosen one.

Just a side-note....
==================================================
Paul's fate was written in diamonds - and so are all of those whose names whom God has chosen and written in His Book...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Unbelief

I met a man, who was speaking to a new pastor and myself.
His words were that the pastor would after a few years get cynical and bitter, when they
had been beaten down by the arrows of their flock.

I pointed out to him that Jesus came with love and victory and the promise we could
overcome through the cross, and such unbelief was just that.

10 years on, Jesus proved true, and the disbeliever is not in the church.
Our hearts are everything. Where either Jesus dwells through the Holy Spirit, or we are
a see of worldiy passions and everything that pollutes us.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,098
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Do you believe the book of James was written by Jesus' brother?
We were discussing the book of James...
Your statement was false....You said James was with Jesus during his ministry and understood faith....that was a false statement....do you have one ounce of honesty about what you say and why cannot you ADMIT ERROR ON YOUR PART.....exactly why nothibg you say has any value or creedance...You are one of the most dishonest people I have ever seen in my life....Just admit you said something wrong which negates the point you were trying to prove
!!!

Does this sound like knowing about faith or being with Jesus during his ministry->>> For not even His brothers were believing in Him
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,098
14,729
113
I think that the Works Righteousness crowd are disturbed and/or offended by the foreordained/free gracious underserved Gift concept/reality.
They have no honesty or the ability to admit error.....As you can see one posted that James (half bro of Jesus) was with Jesus during his ministry and knew about faith....and yet the bible states the following....and when called on it...no ability to say I was wrong which makes the point wrong and then states it dies not matter......the epitome of false teachers...no honor, no integrity, no honesty and no ability to say I was wrong or am wrong!

For not even His brothers were believing in Him
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,758
784
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He also doesn't represent the Words of Jesus.

But if not working sounds good to you,,,,keep on.
Jesus said that those who love Him will obey Him.
While reading the N.T. did you come across any directions Jesus might have given?
A-L-L Christians have works/fruit, the first of which is receiving the Christ of the Gospel. But let us never forget....even this fruit is a Gift from above. As are all good things. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Amen.....grace or works and it is obviously not by works.......
Grace through faith <--only way to be saved eternally
Grace/faith plus works <---to gain, keep, top off, finish etc....hell to pay....false gospel no power double cursed and all that believe it are fools and bewitched
I could respect this if I did not know Galatians. Double cursed was those who justified themselves through
being a jew, circumcision and keeping the whole law.

Walking in unbelief is believing God leaves ones rotten sinful heart alone to rot until we meet Him, as
if the lover of our souls cannot set the prisoner free. Well my friend, if you are not set free, you do not
know Jesus, because He does set the prisoner free if you believe Him and repent.

And knocking your bucket shows what it is full of, and that cannot be described but easily seen.
God bless you, and may the Lord and His truth come to dwell in your heart.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,098
14,729
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He also doesn't represent the Words of Jesus.

But if not working sounds good to you,,,,keep on.
Jesus said that those who love Him will obey Him.
While reading the N.T. did you come across any directions Jesus might have given?
Do you love Jesus by disobeying the rules of a Christian website....? Do tell GodsGrace101 formally FRAN .........
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,758
784
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They have no honesty or the ability to admit error.....As you can see one posted that James (half bro of Jesus) was with Jesus during his ministry and knew about faith....and yet the bible states the following....and when called on it...no ability to say I was wrong which makes the point wrong and then states it dies not matter......the epitome of false teachers...no honor, no integrity, no honesty and no ability to say I was wrong or am wrong!

For not even His brothers were believing in Him
The false preachers/gospel is pretty easy to spot. Test the spirits it is said....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,098
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This thread is the best thread that has ever been started on this site.
Amen Star....and many wonderful truths found in it and stances against those that devalue Jesus, his faith, his power, his promises by peddling a losable salvation that must be maintained by self effort!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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They have no honesty or the ability to admit error.....As you can see one posted that James (half bro of Jesus) was with Jesus during his ministry and knew about faith....and yet the bible states the following....and when called on it...no ability to say I was wrong which makes the point wrong and then states it dies not matter......the epitome of false teachers...no honor, no integrity, no honesty and no ability to say I was wrong or am wrong!

For not even His brothers were believing in Him
My error was to not know the enemy or their tactics.
Bit bad when it all comes clear and the birds come home to roost

It is always a mistake to not see a hard heart to whom love means nothing, only wrapped
in theological jargon and the attempt to abuse others, while trying to control their anger
and not let it show, or else the whole house falls down :love::LOL::ROFL:

We are the children of the living God and know His ways and walk in them, as a Holy,
Righteous, Blameless witness before man and God, Amen, Praise His Name.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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The false preachers/gospel is pretty easy to spot. Test the spirits it is said....
Paul answer was simple, as believers we need to test ourselves that we truly have repented
and been cleansed and know what Jesus and love is. If all we do is antagonistic and critical
we have not begun to know our Lord who above all things submitted unto the cross that we
might know Him and be brought into heaven through His glorious power and redeeming work
in our hearts, Amen.