Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Mcgee...before you try and prove sinless perfection, I suggest you get a definition of what it is first...
im not trying to prove anything

like i said

"""ill give you i havent found 20 at 6:00 while at work
but like i said

proving you WRONG means nothing to me

i wanna know the truth

but i doubt ill find it here

only silly claims like "nice try"


ill look to God for my answers
(john is where ill start)
hope you guys dont spend all day arguing again"""



but based on how people act

i feel the need to reply

and a lotta people just throw words around
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Yeah....you have been on the forums too long or need coffee, when you start repeating what you said less than 5 minutes previously,

I am not trying to PROVE anything.

Just telling you that if you want to talk about a subject, you should know the meanings behind the terms.

Sinless perfection is a doctrine that you NEVER sin after being born again. IF YOU DO SIN, You weren't ever born again. It pretty much says you have to be sinless to be a child of God, otherwise you are just deceiving yourself.


This is typically done by people saying that their sins are not really sins or they claim they did the sin "unwillingly". Thus either watering down sin or making excuses for their sin.

Instead of accepting God's chastenment and repenting.

Sinless perfection doctrine ignores scriptures that says that God chastens His kids,because they don't want to accept the need for chastenment OR that God's kids still misbehave and sin. They still need to be taught wisdom and how to live godly lives.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Think about this, Jaime.

Can we be sinless in a fallen world?

Can we be immortals in a mortal world?

NOPE, because the ONLY sinless mortal who was immortal in a mortal world, was Jesus. And even HE couldn't live in this mortal world without sinning. (In the eyes of those who crucified Him, that is).

Now, COULD Jesus have lived here as a sinless immortal? YES and He did, BUT He was as fully divine as He was fully human, so He was able to do it. WE are NOT fully divine, not an ounce of us is divine.

So if your answer to the two questions above is NO, then you're on the right path. :) But if you answered YES, I suggest you keep looking for the truth. Either way, you're doing a good job of questioning and searching the bible..
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
scripture?

i just see people speaking whatever they feel


i see no scripture


i reply

because others seem to have suuuuch certainty

but never back it up with anything that holds weight


just opinions of smart kindergardeners
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Nobody will go to Hell or Heaven because of their sin. They will go to Hell or Heaven based on whether they know the Living God or not.

It IS about belief, God has testified over and over in scripture that he regards a persons heart/faith/belief over their action and or deeds.

If we believe that Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins, and we accept the Holy Spirit for our life and for eternal salvation.

I believed God and what He said, and I have received God and what He gives. Which is everything for life and godliness.

Saved from death. We are now alive in Christ.

So I live from the abundance of what I have been given. Already given with nothing else to search for.

Our life is now eternal, in this body for a short time, but eternally with the Lord.

Our Lord can now touch the world through us, within us. We can see the world from His point of view, occasionally, if we just listen, lean in and listen.


You now know your God. Participate with Him in what He is accomplishing in this world.

Bring Glory to Him and show the world what He has done for them through Jesus Christ.
Amen!

Being able to pray and see the world from God's perspective and through eyes of love, changes everything.

Knowing that God has give us everything we need to live godly lives is empowering.

May folks not be so blinded by their strawmen,they miss those basic Christian messages.

May we do God's will here on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
you sure arent acting like this is whats in your heart
I was a precocious kid.

My brother and I read the dictionary for fun one summer...I think I was going into 2nd grade at the time. Our 3rd grade teaching gave us an old set of children's world encyclopedia, we read through since we didn't have money for video games and such.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Lol... I feel like I did in kindergarten, with all the new terms folks toss around. However I have been studying intensely for 7 years...so maybe 2nd grade? Or 4th? (4th grade is when they started us on high school math, haha. We thought it was a game. I liked the predator/prey stastical models best)

I know most of the big words thrown around, lol.
 
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limey410

Guest
Jesus does not agree with you.
All you are claiming the issue is hard so let us give up.
Belief is just a mental idea, unless it bring righteousness into someone's life it means nothing.

Sin can be defeated through the Spirit. Why is it so hard to accept? Love is good and sin is evil.
Now in this world there will always be the corrupt who peddle fallen sin is not conquered but they
lie.

If you have not grasped the profound nature of Jesus, love, and justice, have you seen the cross?
Why do you talk compromise? Now Paul did not claim the prize until near the end.

Jesus talked about a difficult walk. Only a few find it. To be one with God. Now I look at the greed
of a lot of preachers. Where does this money come from? The members of their churches on the basis
they will be given more, or invest in me the preacher and you will grow rich, ie selling greed.
Traditionally giving to the church is storing up wealth in heaven, where no one can take it away. That
is real wealth and real value.

This is preaching easy believism. It says a compromised life is fine. Jesus and the apostles said no.
What you need to do is realise God is asking you to know why in your heart you do things and learn how
to found all on Christ. In Him we have the victory.
Yes Peter, in a way I am saying give up. God asks us to surrender to Him, so if you wish to say give up, that is mere semantics.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Mcgee...before you try and prove sinless perfection, I suggest you get a definition of what it is first...

1. "Perfect" is also translated as "mature" as a mature Christian in Christ, you would have sound doctrine,be able to discern good and evil, fruit of the Spirit,He..,it does not mean sinless.
Amen! How many people on CC claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time just like God the Father? Are we actually perfect "in that sense?" NO. Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - AT Robertson points out - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. The goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

James 1:4 says - But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

James 3:2 says - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

James 2:22 says - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? The NASB says "was perfected," the ESV says "faith was completed by his works."

I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect, holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I believe you can have all the knowledge mankind currently contains, understand all the theories of science, theorems of mathematics or physics, have the most wealth in the entire world...but still stand before God and be humbled by how much you don't know.

Our lives are but a grain of sand on the beach of eternity. Our wisdom and knowledge nothing more than a drop in the vast ocean of God's immeasurable grace and mercy.

We feel proud when we learn to walk and ashamed when we stumble and fall. Like toddlers we sometimes run ahead of our Father. However when we become mature adults in Christ, we value the time walking along side our Father. When we are weak, He carries us. When the storm rages around us, He shelters us. He gives us wisdom and strength to accomplish the tasks He has set before us. Yet even if we feel like failures, He calls us His beloved children. He has wash with His blood and clothe us with white robes. While we walk this foreign land we need our armour, but one day we will be safely unfolded in His loving arms. What a glorious day that will be. For now we keep watch and mend the wounds of our fallen siblings until they to can stand and be a light pointing to our loving Father.

Let us then speak words that are like life giving water and not curses and lies that add salt to an already wounded heart.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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scripture?

i just see people speaking whatever they feel


i see no scripture
i reply

because others seem to have suuuuch certainty

but never back it up with anything that holds weight


just opinions of smart kindergardeners
Good for you NNM!
You won't find much scripture around here.

YOU are posting what God has told you.

Some here are telling you not to listen to God and to go ahead and sin.

They will deny this, but, in effect, it's what they're doing.

Wonderful Chrsitians, right?

You have more of the truth than those here who speak against your ideas.
You know the bible very well, but keep reading it anyway.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Lol... I feel like I did in kindergarten, with all the new terms folks toss around. However I have been studying intensely for 7 years...so maybe 2nd grade? Or 4th? (4th grade is when they started us on high school math, haha. We thought it was a game. I liked the predator/prey stastical models best)

I know most of the big words thrown around, lol.
ONLY 7 years?
No wonder...
You've got a long way to go.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
ONLY 7 years?
No wonder...
You've got a long way to go.
Don't worry, you will catch up eventually. No shame in flunking a few grades.

Eventually you will learn how to read, don't give up. We believe in you.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Yes Peter, in a way I am saying give up. God asks us to surrender to Him, so if you wish to say give up, that is mere semantics.
What are you saying give up?

I find it slightly amusing when I was 18 I saw Christ on the cross and me trying to
defend who I was and be good. I saw how this was a waste of time and failure, and
only having Christ and serving Him could anything of value flow.

But in Christ and through Christ we need to be transformed so it is Christs love in our
hearts that generates action and reaching out. It is this flow that is our walk, the
outworking of Christs love through us to others.

Now it strikes me though people have given up trying to be good, they are not broken
and aware of Christ example of love, and how it empowers them to reach out and help
others. And some do not even accept a righteous walk or what holiness actually is, and
are just into success and blessing.

How much you understand of this, depends on your own walk. But based on previous
interactions, you do not understand what I am saying so really it ends here. God bless you.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Amen...there is NOT A JUST MAN UPON THE EARTH THAT DOES GOOD AND SINS NOT....this one verse alone contradicts those who claim to be sinless....not even going to argue or discuss that foolishness.....I have a word for those who claim it, but will spare.....!
You're beginning to "spare".
GOOD!

I hear people here say that they're trying not to sin and get rid of sin in their lives --- as they see fit.

Then I see those like YOU who say that it's impossible and to just go on sinning --- it's OK.

Then I see you saying that you don't preach sinning.

Sure sounds like it...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Don't worry, you will catch up eventually. No shame in flunking a few grades.

Eventually you will learn how to read, don't give up. We believe in you.
I didn't mean it in a mean way Ariel.
It's just that you're so used to people being mean, that it's how you read it.

What I meant is that 7 years is nothing.
Sometimes when we're new Christians we undestand things in a certain way.

When we become mature Christians and are able to handle the truth,
we understand things in a different, and correct, way.

That's what I meant.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I have been reading the Bible at least once yearly from Genesis to Revelation for 20 years.

I started my study on church doctrine and the words that get thrown around on CC about 7 years ago.

Before that I knew what the Bible said,but had no clue what men were talking about with terms like sinless perfection, eschatology, Amillenial, Rapture, justification, sanctification, Prevenient grace, etc.

So yes I do have a lot to learn, but at least I have learn what godly heavenly wisdom is and understand the importance of taking ones tongue and listening and praying before one speaks.

They teach that in Kindergarten, but too many folks flunk out or need constant reminders.