Not By Works

NoNameMcgee · May 22, 2017

im not trying to prove anything

like i said

"""ill give you i havent found 20 at 6:00 while at work
but like i said

proving you WRONG means nothing to me

i wanna know the truth

but i doubt ill find it here

only silly claims like "nice try"

ill look to God for my answers
(john is where ill start)
hope you guys dont spend all day arguing again"""

but based on how people act

i feel the need to reply

and a lotta people just throw words around

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

Yeah....you have been on the forums too long or need coffee, when you start repeating what you said less than 5 minutes previously,

I am not trying to PROVE anything.

Just telling you that if you want to talk about a subject, you should know the meanings behind the terms.

Sinless perfection is a doctrine that you NEVER sin after being born again. IF YOU DO SIN, You weren't ever born again. It pretty much says you have to be sinless to be a child of God, otherwise you are just deceiving yourself.

This is typically done by people saying that their sins are not really sins or they claim they did the sin "unwillingly". Thus either watering down sin or making excuses for their sin.

Instead of accepting God's chastenment and repenting.

Sinless perfection doctrine ignores scriptures that says that God chastens His kids,because they don't want to accept the need for chastenment OR that God's kids still misbehave and sin. They still need to be taught wisdom and how to live godly lives.

blue_ladybug · May 22, 2017

Think about this, Jaime.

Can we be sinless in a fallen world?

Can we be immortals in a mortal world?

NOPE, because the ONLY sinless mortal who was immortal in a mortal world, was Jesus. And even HE couldn't live in this mortal world without sinning. (In the eyes of those who crucified Him, that is).

Now, COULD Jesus have lived here as a sinless immortal? YES and He did, BUT He was as fully divine as He was fully human, so He was able to do it. WE are NOT fully divine, not an ounce of us is divine.

So if your answer to the two questions above is NO, then you're on the right path.

But if you answered YES, I suggest you keep looking for the truth. Either way, you're doing a good job of questioning and searching the bible..

NoNameMcgee · May 22, 2017

scripture?

i just see people speaking whatever they feel

i see no scripture

i reply

because others seem to have suuuuch certainty

but never back it up with anything that holds weight

just opinions of smart kindergardeners

NoNameMcgee · May 22, 2017

Ariel82 said:

you sure arent acting like this is whats in your heart

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

limey410 said:

Amen!

Being able to pray and see the world from God's perspective and through eyes of love, changes everything.

Knowing that God has give us everything we need to live godly lives is empowering.

May folks not be so blinded by their strawmen,they miss those basic Christian messages.

May we do God's will here on Earth as it is done in Heaven.

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

I was a precocious kid.

My brother and I read the dictionary for fun one summer...I think I was going into 2nd grade at the time. Our 3rd grade teaching gave us an old set of children's world encyclopedia, we read through since we didn't have money for video games and such.

NoNameMcgee · May 22, 2017

Ariel82 said:

hahahaha

ariel....

youre awesome

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

Lol... I feel like I did in kindergarten, with all the new terms folks toss around. However I have been studying intensely for 7 years...so maybe 2nd grade? Or 4th? (4th grade is when they started us on high school math, haha. We thought it was a game. I liked the predator/prey stastical models best)

I know most of the big words thrown around, lol.

blue_ladybug · May 22, 2017

She's almost as awesome as me.

LOL JK

But she IS pretty awesome

NoNameMcgee said:

limey410 · May 22, 2017

PeterJens said:

Jesus does not agree with you.
All you are claiming the issue is hard so let us give up.
Belief is just a mental idea, unless it bring righteousness into someone's life it means nothing.

Sin can be defeated through the Spirit. Why is it so hard to accept? Love is good and sin is evil.
Now in this world there will always be the corrupt who peddle fallen sin is not conquered but they
lie.

If you have not grasped the profound nature of Jesus, love, and justice, have you seen the cross?
Why do you talk compromise? Now Paul did not claim the prize until near the end.

Jesus talked about a difficult walk. Only a few find it. To be one with God. Now I look at the greed
of a lot of preachers. Where does this money come from? The members of their churches on the basis
they will be given more, or invest in me the preacher and you will grow rich, ie selling greed.
Traditionally giving to the church is storing up wealth in heaven, where no one can take it away. That
is real wealth and real value.

This is preaching easy believism. It says a compromised life is fine. Jesus and the apostles said no.
What you need to do is realise God is asking you to know why in your heart you do things and learn how
to found all on Christ. In Him we have the victory.

Yes Peter, in a way I am saying give up. God asks us to surrender to Him, so if you wish to say give up, that is mere semantics.

mailmandan · May 22, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Amen! How many people on CC claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time just like God the Father? Are we actually perfect "in that sense?" NO. Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - AT Robertson points out - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. The goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

James 1:4 says - But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

James 3:2 says - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

James 2:22 says - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? The NASB says "was perfected," the ESV says "faith was completed by his works."

I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect, holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

I believe you can have all the knowledge mankind currently contains, understand all the theories of science, theorems of mathematics or physics, have the most wealth in the entire world...but still stand before God and be humbled by how much you don't know.

Our lives are but a grain of sand on the beach of eternity. Our wisdom and knowledge nothing more than a drop in the vast ocean of God's immeasurable grace and mercy.

We feel proud when we learn to walk and ashamed when we stumble and fall. Like toddlers we sometimes run ahead of our Father. However when we become mature adults in Christ, we value the time walking along side our Father. When we are weak, He carries us. When the storm rages around us, He shelters us. He gives us wisdom and strength to accomplish the tasks He has set before us. Yet even if we feel like failures, He calls us His beloved children. He has wash with His blood and clothe us with white robes. While we walk this foreign land we need our armour, but one day we will be safely unfolded in His loving arms. What a glorious day that will be. For now we keep watch and mend the wounds of our fallen siblings until they to can stand and be a light pointing to our loving Father.

Let us then speak words that are like life giving water and not curses and lies that add salt to an already wounded heart.

FranC · May 22, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

Good for you NNM!
You won't find much scripture around here.

YOU are posting what God has told you.

Some here are telling you not to listen to God and to go ahead and sin.

They will deny this, but, in effect, it's what they're doing.

Wonderful Chrsitians, right?

You have more of the truth than those here who speak against your ideas.
You know the bible very well, but keep reading it anyway.

FranC · May 22, 2017

Ariel82 said:

ONLY 7 years?
No wonder...
You've got a long way to go.

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

FranC said:

Don't worry, you will catch up eventually. No shame in flunking a few grades.

Eventually you will learn how to read, don't give up. We believe in you.

PeterJens · May 22, 2017

limey410 said:

What are you saying give up?

I find it slightly amusing when I was 18 I saw Christ on the cross and me trying to
defend who I was and be good. I saw how this was a waste of time and failure, and
only having Christ and serving Him could anything of value flow.

But in Christ and through Christ we need to be transformed so it is Christs love in our
hearts that generates action and reaching out. It is this flow that is our walk, the
outworking of Christs love through us to others.

Now it strikes me though people have given up trying to be good, they are not broken
and aware of Christ example of love, and how it empowers them to reach out and help
others. And some do not even accept a righteous walk or what holiness actually is, and
are just into success and blessing.

How much you understand of this, depends on your own walk. But based on previous
interactions, you do not understand what I am saying so really it ends here. God bless you.

FranC · May 22, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You're beginning to "spare".
GOOD!

I hear people here say that they're trying not to sin and get rid of sin in their lives --- as they see fit.

Then I see those like YOU who say that it's impossible and to just go on sinning --- it's OK.

Then I see you saying that you don't preach sinning.

Sure sounds like it...

FranC · May 22, 2017

Ariel82 said:

I didn't mean it in a mean way Ariel.
It's just that you're so used to people being mean, that it's how you read it.

What I meant is that 7 years is nothing.
Sometimes when we're new Christians we undestand things in a certain way.

When we become mature Christians and are able to handle the truth,
we understand things in a different, and correct, way.

That's what I meant.

Ariel82 · May 22, 2017

I have been reading the Bible at least once yearly from Genesis to Revelation for 20 years.

I started my study on church doctrine and the words that get thrown around on CC about 7 years ago.

Before that I knew what the Bible said,but had no clue what men were talking about with terms like sinless perfection, eschatology, Amillenial, Rapture, justification, sanctification, Prevenient grace, etc.

So yes I do have a lot to learn, but at least I have learn what godly heavenly wisdom is and understand the importance of taking ones tongue and listening and praying before one speaks.

They teach that in Kindergarten, but too many folks flunk out or need constant reminders.

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