Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

I agree with what you say.

Yet I'm confused with "We are not required to activate our flesh"

Can you explain it to this dummy please

Mr. BillG you are so funny and no dummy!!... sadly churches send us more on path of bondage than freedom, I just know that if we look at sanctification as a goal in life we miss completely what Jesus has already given us by His Grace.

I think all the exhortations are in the scripture for a reason, because we have an independent will and God does not override this, neither are we called to strive in our own effort to sin less and less....we already have the person within us, the one who is Sinless and Holy.

It is bigger and better than fleshy obedience ....in Christ we are called to yield and receive this is walking in the Spirit.

Allowing Him to operate through us ....how you may ask by agreeing with Him (ie renew your mind) that we are new creations in Him and the sanctification within will manifest outwardly.

Think on this ...16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly ....the message of who you are in Jesus, sanctified completely is powerful but you need to let it happen

This is why "sin less and less" is wrong because any of us can slip back into a fleshy walk, it does not mean we are less sanctified...this is a very terrible teaching....if we go back to walking by the flesh we have put aside who we are in Christ, but Christ will never abandon us.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree with what you say.

Yet I'm confused with "We are not required to activate our flesh"

Can you explain it to this dummy please

Oops forgot this part

Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? –Gal. 3:2-3

I lived this way far too long trying to "be good" in my own self effort....let me tell you it is a losing battle especially for the born again believer, and I know for a fact God does not like it, it sets aside the riches/grace of Christ Jesus which is a complete travesty.

 

[dcontroversal]

Mr. BillG you are so funny and no dummy!!... sadly churches send us more on path of bondage than freedom, I just know that if we look at sanctification as a goal in life we miss completely what Jesus has already given us by His Grace.

I think all the exhortations are in the scripture for a reason, because we have an independent will and God does not override this, neither are we called to strive in our own effort to sin less and less....we already have the person within us, the one who is Sinless and Holy.

It is bigger and better than fleshy obedience ....in Christ we are called to yield and receive this is walking in the Spirit.

Allowing Him to operate through us ....how you may ask by agreeing with Him (ie renew your mind) that we are new creations in Him and the sanctification within will manifest outwardly.

Think on this ...16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly ....the message of who you are in Jesus, sanctified completely is powerful but you need to let it happen

This is why "sin less and less" is wrong because any of us can slip back into a fleshy walk, it does not mean we are less sanctified...this is a very terrible teaching....if we go back to walking by the flesh we have put aside who we are in Christ, but Christ will never abandon us.

Exactly why a saved child of God is called a SAINT <---who we are in Christ as HOLY......

 

[theanointedwinner]

What is it like to enjoy victory?

 

[Beckworth]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Before you make a broad statement that NO WORKS SAVE US , you need to read John 6:29. “...this is the WORK OF god that you believe...”. You have just eliminated Faith as necessary to salvation b

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

If you say we are not saved by works, then you are saying we are not saved by faith! John 6:29 “!

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Mark 12:24- you are mistaken because you do not know the scriptures nor the power of God. If you insist that we cannot be saved by works then you have just eliminated faith because faith is a work! Read it in John 6:29. Obviously you do not know that there are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible: works of the law of Moses “whoever seeks to be justified by the law, he is fallen from Grace (Galatians), there are boastful works, “ not of works lest anyone should boast”, Ephesians , these would be works that men have thought up by themselves, not commanded by God. Playing Ball for Jesus and selling chicken dinners to raise money for good causes are some that come to my mind, mzybe you can think of others. These were the kinds of works that men on the day of judgment told Jesus “ but Lord l, Lord, have we not done many mighty works in your name? “ But Jesus said “Depart from me you who work lawlessness. “. That means without lawful authority from Jesus. Has He told you to do these things? Then you may be working without law or his authority. There are others (works of the flesh Galatians) but the most important one that you must understand is that there are also WORKS of God. These are works approved of God. They come from God, not men and they are COMMADED BY God. So yes, we ARE SAVED BY WORKS- the works of God. That’s why James says we are saved by works and Ephesians says NOT by works. There is no contradiction there between Paul and James. Paul specifically identifies the kinds of works he is talking about (boastful works) and James identifies the kind he is talking about. (Works of God).

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Before you make a broad statement that NO WORKS SAVE US , you need to read John 6:29. “...this is the WORK OF god that you believe...”. You have just eliminated Faith as necessary to salvation b



If you say we are not saved by works, then you are saying we are not saved by faith! John 6:29 “!


Mark 12:24- you are mistaken because you do not know the scriptures nor the power of God. If you insist that we cannot be saved by works then you have just eliminated faith because faith is a work! Read it in John 6:29. Obviously you do not know that there are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible: works of the law of Moses “whoever seeks to be justified by the law, he is fallen from Grace (Galatians), there are boastful works, “ not of works lest anyone should boast”, Ephesians , these would be works that men have thought up by themselves, not commanded by God. Playing Ball for Jesus and selling chicken dinners to raise money for good causes are some that come to my mind, mzybe you can think of others. These were the kinds of works that men on the day of judgment told Jesus “ but Lord l, Lord, have we not done many mighty works in your name? “ But Jesus said “Depart from me you who work lawlessness. “. That means without lawful authority from Jesus. Has He told you to do these things? Then you may be working without law or his authority. There are others (works of the flesh Galatians) but the most important one that you must understand is that there are also WORKS of God. These are works approved of God. They come from God, not men and they are COMMADED BY God. So yes, we ARE SAVED BY WORKS- the works of God. That’s why James says we are saved by works and Ephesians says NOT by works. There is no contradiction there between Paul and James. Paul specifically identifies the kinds of works he is talking about (boastful works) and James identifies the kind he is talking about. (Works of God).

Are you implying faith is a work?

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[VCO]

Oops forgot this part

Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? –Gal. 3:2-3

I lived this way far too long trying to "be good" in my own self effort....let me tell you it is a losing battle especially for the born again believer, and I know for a fact God does not like it, it sets aside the riches/grace of Christ Jesus which is a complete travesty.

Wow, that is says it all, but I doubt you understand it properly. Here is the New Century Version, and it is a little easier to understand.

Galatians 3:3 (NCV)
3 You began your life in Christ by the Spirit. Now are you trying to make it complete by your own power? That is foolish.

When you are Born Again, the Holy Spirit births your human spirit into eternal life, the moment you first believe, which is SALVATION. Then You begin the Process of Sanctification, or is learning to walk like JESUS, which you will not be perfect at it until you get the Glorified Body like JESUS. This verse is saying you are FOOLISH to think you can complete the process of Sanctification by your own power. How much more foolish are those who think Salvation can be completed by their own power?

 

[gb9]

Are you implying faith is a work?

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

it seems, as all the legalists do, that " yes, works save ".

 

[UnderGrace]

You begin the Process of Sanctification, or is learning to walk like JESUS,

We do not learn to walk like Jesus, that is my point .... the end point is already the beginning point....do you see, there is no process.

 

[UnderGrace]

Wow, that is says it all, but I doubt you understand it properly.

Oh I understand it all perfectly....thank you kindly.

Just because 90% of being have been indoctrinated with lordship salvation does not make it biblically sound, and thankfully it is not biblically sound because God is much greater and far beyond that feeble gospel.

I no longer want to talk about it.....brings back all bad memories and having to deprogram myself, now it is just me and scripture and you know what, I no longer need any systematic theology and schemas.....when I got rid of all those books is when the Holy Spirit stepped in and showed me He is more than able.

Okay movin on now

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

it seems, as all the legalists do, that " yes, works save ".

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[VCO]

We do not learn to walk like Jesus, that is my point .... the end point is already the beginning point....do you see, there is no process.

You will not be PERFECT at it in this BODY.

We have a SIN NATURE, and JESUS DOES NOT HAVE A SIN NATURE.

Don't you understand that the GLORIFIED BODY cannot even think SIN?


Romans 6:5 (ESV)
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

1 John 3:2 (ESV)
2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.


Are you saying you are GREATER than PAUL ? ? ?


Philippians 3:12-15 (ESV)
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, [Is that not STRIVING forward to become MORE LIKE CHRIST for the rest of your life?]
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

 

[Magenta]

Before you make a broad statement that NO WORKS SAVE US , you need to read John 6:29. “...this is the WORK OF god that you believe...”. You have just eliminated Faith as necessary to salvation b

If you say we are not saved by works, then you are saying we are not saved by faith! John 6:29 “!

Faith is the outcome of the work of God in us, it is God's work, not our own.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Ephesians 2:8

 

[UnderGrace]

You will not be PERFECT at it in this BODY.

I never said that I would be perfect, what I am stating is that Christ is perfect inside of me, so I need to live through Him.

His perfection is my perfection, my sinful flesh will always be sinful.....but what I can do is learn to walk as best I can in the Spirit and the reason we can never state we are sinless is because we are housed in this sinful flesh until we die and because of the flesh and our weaknesses we will fail sometimes more, sometimes less.

Not about sinning less and less it is about waking in the Spirit consistently as possible.

 

[crossnote]

Not about sinning less and less it is about waking in the Spirit consistently as possible.

Right, it's about trusting more and more.

 

[UnderGrace]

Right, it's about trusting more and more.

Yes indeed

 

[UnderGrace]

Are you implying faith is a work?

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Faith is not a work, but in this passage the measure of faith given to us is with regards to the use of the gifts that God has distributed.

I do think "salvific" faith is a gift only "salvation" is the gift in Ephesians, you might disagree but believing and faith are one and the same and God does not do our believing for us.

That is the way I see it anyway.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All well here bro.
On our way back from a cruise to the Norwegian Fjords.

Tor and I celebrating our 25th Wedding Anniversary.

It's 8 here as I post.

We have had an amazing time.
Seen the beautiful creation of God.
Cruising in the Fjords.
Excuse the pun but it really does float my boat.

I could sit and watch the ocean all day.
When I do I am always reminded of Job 38-42.

It does my heart good, it humbles me.

How is my bro doing?

Happy anniversary bro here is to another 25!!

 

[star]

I'm back folks. My husband had surgery for bladder cancer. His name is Jim. Please keep him in your prayers. The pathology does show all removed and no treatment needed at this time. Praise God from whom all blessings flow.

PS: I posted here on this thread because it's the only thread I usually care to comment on.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Faith is not a work, but in this passage the measure of faith given to us is with regards to the use of the gifts that God has distributed.

I do think "salvific" faith is a gift only "salvation" is the gift in Ephesians, you might disagree but believing and faith are one and the same and God does not do our believing for us.

That is the way I see it anyway.....

I agree with you about the bold text above, "faith is not a work" and "salvific faith is a gift".

Perhaps we can agree on the following as well?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: