Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
You mentioned Human Love, as if it is the SAME as GOD GIVEN LOVE. Agape Love is GOD GIVEN LOVE, those He gives it to NEVER FALL OUT OF LOVE WITH HIM, or the Brethren.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

That is the ULTIMATE FORM OF LOVE.
Having Unconditional Love of the Holy Spirit doesent mean we don't fall out of Love any more. "In the world you will have trouble, but be of good chear, I have overcome the world," we fail into Grace: into God's influence to get back up and go on, learning from the fall to return to the Lord; learning of Him in Humility to be taimed by God as a friend, and no longer be driven by work in pride of achiement. "Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We learn from the trouble we face in the world to stay close to the One who overcame and attained the Resurrection. So that "All things work together for good to them that Love God, and all things are of God." The enemy has been striped even of the keys of death and hell, so that the valley of the shadow of death, also referred as the valley of decision, belongs to God. Even the deceptions of the enemy now belong to God, you may ask what would God do with deceptions? Reward everyone according to their work: without Right relationship with God we are in deception, until we are perfect in Love we have areas of deception. You may call it a dark closet that you don't want to go in and neither want God to go in. That is deception of fear, since it all belongs to God you need to welcome Him there to Learn of Him, Love in your deepest pain: in your sickness and death that He overcame. Jesus said "Nothing by any means shall harm you If you believe." Dying will not harm you, it may hurt your fealings but will not harm you, just like drinking sour milk will hurt your feelings but will not harm you. Not by works means, no one attains Resurrection on their own. Even Jesus taking the blame for His creation relied on the Holy Spirit to carry Him to the Resurrection. It may even be the dying of the Lord Jesus that made distinction in the Godhead as 3 different personalities. Jesus still suffers for us and with us, the Holy Spirit still compels us to come and drink of the Living water and we pray to the Father in the identity of Jesus in constant fellowship with the Father.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

We are not saved by "works alone". But without holiness no one will see the Lord.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,516
10,251
113
55
Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

We are not saved by "works alone". But without holiness no one will see the Lord.
So just how holy must you be? :unsure:

The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. Those who have been justified by faith are sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
 

DJ3

Member
Jun 22, 2019
88
21
8
Firstly I did not defend him.
He is more than capable of doing that himself.
Secondly I have said to him in the past that I do not agree with him on certain points.
He has reciprocated.



You have given likes to the people above who do exactly the same.



And that was my point. Go to the salvation thread and see what some say about me, DC, UG, EG and many others who believe in Eternal Security. Making judgemental assumptions. And you gave a like.

Yes love is fantastic, it's amazing, it changes us.

As Jesus said,

By this the world will know that you are my disciples

John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Accusing others based on their doctrinal bent of OSAS (Eternal security) to use it to do what they want, sin all they want, murder all they want, commit adultery all they want and so on is not showing love in any way shape or form.

To accuse those who believe in OSAS/ES as an excuse to sin all they want and sit on their ass and do nothing is judgemental to the core.

If someone does not agree with my ES bent that's fine.
I consider them a brother/sister in Jesus.
I would not judge them.
That's what Jesus will do.

Will they go to heaven?
I would say yes.

If they have placed their faith in Jesus, the risen Jesus and want to be like him then that's good enough for me.
Firstly I did not defend him. ---You most certainly did.
He is more than capable of doing that himself.---Actually he's not. He seems to mainly mock.

Firstly I did not defend him.
He is more than capable of doing that himself.
Secondly I have said to him in the past that I do not agree with him on certain points.
He has reciprocated.



You have given likes to the people above who do exactly the same.



And that was my point. Go to the salvation thread and see what some say about me, DC, UG, EG and many others who believe in Eternal Security. Making judgemental assumptions. And you gave a like.

Yes love is fantastic, it's amazing, it changes us.

As Jesus said,

By this the world will know that you are my disciples

John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Accusing others based on their doctrinal bent of OSAS (Eternal security) to use it to do what they want, sin all they want, murder all they want, commit adultery all they want and so on is not showing love in any way shape or form.

To accuse those who believe in OSAS/ES as an excuse to sin all they want and sit on their ass and do nothing is judgemental to the core.

If someone does not agree with my ES bent that's fine.
I consider them a brother/sister in Jesus.
I would not judge them.
That's what Jesus will do.

Will they go to heaven?
I would say yes.

If they have placed their faith in Jesus, the risen Jesus and want to be like him then that's good enough for me.
You will not find it, but as you can see...the legalists, workers for and salvation losers accuse us of tje same crap they accused Paul of in his day....the very same accusation...tells me I am on the right path and my belief is correct!!!
YOUR THEORY OF WHAT OSAS BELIEVERS TEACH AND BELIEVE IS TOTALLY FALSE.
Square your THEORY about OSAS with these SCRIPTURES.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [Antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

2 Samuel 23:5 (NCV)
5 “This is how God has cared for my family. God made a lasting agreement with me, right and sure in every way. He will accomplish my salvation and satisfy all my desires.

Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
There is nothing in these scriptures that support the OSAS belief that once a person has a sincere moment of faith that Jesus is Lord that God is now constrained to not blot out their name from the Book of Life.

And yes, this is the reality of OSAS theology.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
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let me get this straight, "with works" applies to a gift?
The gift of faith creates works in our lives. Some have preached works are ours, rather they
are the fruit or consequence of the faith in Christ. If the works are missing the faith is not the
gift people claim it is.

The false teaching is to take out the fruit as if Gods Holy Spirit in our hearts has no effect or
consequences. Those who do not know what a truly sinful life style looks like think like this
because they as people are "nice" and "nice" christian and "nice" non christian look very similar.

When you know real sinners who have let rip and their lies are a disaster, for God to work things
will change or it is meaningless.

James put it simply. If we claim we love God yet hate others, and do nothing to meet need, we
are lying. It is this brutal yet James is 100% correct. Faith is to do with the heart and being
born again, a new creation, something that is of heaven and eternal from something that is
mortal and dying. Once one grasps the breadth of these statements to claim there is no fruit
and it is real, is simply absurd and a denial of what Jesus is.

Jesus has always been about action faith not passive faith. Sinful man understands the benefits
of salvation and feels the beauty of a transformed life, yet cannot pay the price, yet wants the
rewards. There are no halfway houses in God. Either you turn your back on the world and walk
with Him or He abandons you.

34 If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.
36 What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
37 Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels
Mark 8
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
So just how holy must you be? :unsure:

The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. Those who have been justified by faith are sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
A good question, "how holy must you be?"

Holiness is either there or it is not. Something is either Holy or not Holy.
There has never been levels of Holiness. A holy object can come into the presence of the
Lord. We are Gods Holy temple where the Holy Spirit dwells. So our definition of what is
Holy and what is not needs to be explored.

Some have believed they could have the Holy Spirit and also be possessed by an evil spirit.
This is clearly absurd, claiming God presence is submitting to an evil spirit.

Equally how can a back slidden believer still be Gods Holy temple. At what point is the
temple defiled and brought into descecration. I do not know the answers to such ideas.

In the gnostic view of flesh being sinful and the spirit being pure and Holy the two can
dwell together, even though nothing in scripture suggests this is possible.

Some questions we maybe scared of asking, in case it undermines our faith, except for
our faith to be true, a resolution is needed. God bless you.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
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Please show me WHERE did any CC member in any thread EVER stated (as you may have implied here) that "under grace" means "sin", show me! (and I'm brand new here)
Sadly if you follow some threads, believers have argued God forgives them while they sin, even
though they are neither repentant or sorrowful.

Also many testimonies are of OSAS believers who live in sin, and never resolve it but expect that
God has forgiven them and it does not matter.

These are facts, and if you want to search for them they are there. Unfortunately saying such things
do not exist, will not be changed with evidence, because it is like talking to a flat-earther. The belief
defines reality not the facts.

But the fact people take unhealthy approaches to sin and salvation does not validate or invalidate
the positions. God declares judgement against evil, and provides the door for His people to walk
righteously. What is the real question is what sinful actions cannot be repented of or resolved?
I have heared too many times in the general it is impossible to obey God, yet they rarely mention where
and over what. What they have mentioned is easily achievable, so showing this is a smoke screen for
not resolving sin and staying in rebellion against God.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Sadly if you follow some threads, believers have argued God forgives them while they sin, even
though they are neither repentant or sorrowful.

Also many testimonies are of OSAS believers who live in sin, and never resolve it but expect that
God has forgiven them and it does not matter.

These are facts, and if you want to search for them they are there. Unfortunately saying such things
do not exist, will not be changed with evidence, because it is like talking to a flat-earther. The belief
defines reality not the facts.

But the fact people take unhealthy approaches to sin and salvation does not validate or invalidate
the positions. God declares judgement against evil, and provides the door for His people to walk
righteously. What is the real question is what sinful actions cannot be repented of or resolved?
I have heared too many times in the general it is impossible to obey God, yet they rarely mention where
and over what. What they have mentioned is easily achievable, so showing this is a smoke screen for
not resolving sin and staying in rebellion against God.
Yes and I cant stand the hypocrisy anymore. They think they dont need to answer to God for the sins they commit. And think (I) need to answer for my sins to God. Pure hypocrisy. I know I have to answer to God for my sins, I am treated equally to other human beings. But they act superior as if they dont need to answer to God for sinful behavior but every else does in the world.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Yes and I cant stand the hypocrisy anymore. They think they dont need to answer to God for the sins they commit. And think (I) need to answer for my sins to God. Pure hypocrisy. I know I have to answer to God for my sins, I am treated equally to other human beings. But they act superior as if they dont need to answer to God for sinful behavior but every else does in the world.
Can security become ones God rather than love?
I suspect in a lot of peoples lives their insecurity in relationships is bolstered by a sense
of security and acceptance in Christ. It is though a big step between knowing one is loved
by Jesus and accepted and continuing to do evil which poisons the reality of this love.

This is very complicated because of what sin and abuse has done to some. For me after meeting
Jesus I wonder how anyone could confuse the two issues, yet if the need for security is above seeing
sin for what it is, maybe this distortion is maintained. How could God forgive murderers who continue
to murder but claim to know Him.

This analogy seems extreme, but if each sin is equal with any other, then it illustrates the level of
contradiction involved. And the tension between perfection, human ideas around things never being
good enough, and who God actually accepts, Samson, King David, Moses, Abraham, people with flaws
and struggles yet called righteous, holy, people after His heart. God is so gracious and pure and holy,
we need to humbly bow before Him and learn from Him, because His way is easy and His burden is light.

God bless you dear sister, from the bottom of my heart, be encouraged for the Lord has done a great
work in you. What joy to see you dad come to faith, I wish I had seen such a thing myself.
It makes the sadness to be tempered with joy to know you will meet him again with the Lord, Amen.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Yes and I cant stand the hypocrisy anymore. They think they dont need to answer to God for the sins they commit. And think (I) need to answer for my sins to God. Pure hypocrisy. I know I have to answer to God for my sins, I am treated equally to other human beings. But they act superior as if they dont need to answer to God for sinful behavior but every else does in the world.
Yes RosemaryX, I k
Can security become ones God rather than love?
I suspect in a lot of peoples lives their insecurity in relationships is bolstered by a sense
of security and acceptance in Christ. It is though a big step between knowing one is loved
by Jesus and accepted and continuing to do evil which poisons the reality of this love.

This is very complicated because of what sin and abuse has done to some. For me after meeting
Jesus I wonder how anyone could confuse the two issues, yet if the need for security is above seeing
sin for what it is, maybe this distortion is maintained. How could God forgive murderers who continue
to murder but claim to know Him.

This analogy seems extreme, but if each sin is equal with any other, then it illustrates the level of
contradiction involved. And the tension between perfection, human ideas around things never being
good enough, and who God actually accepts, Samson, King David, Moses, Abraham, people with flaws
and struggles yet called righteous, holy, people after His heart. God is so gracious and pure and holy,
we need to humbly bow before Him and learn from Him, because His way is easy and His burden is light.

God bless you dear sister, from the bottom of my heart, be encouraged for the Lord has done a great
work in you. What joy to see you dad come to faith, I wish I had seen such a thing myself.
It makes the sadness to be tempered with joy to know you will meet him again with the Lord, Amen.
Thank you so much for your kind message: ):God bless you dear friend:)
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
People hate those who believe in holy living why?

Because it shows they are living a sinful lifestyle.

I used to think someone who Obeys the bible was a pharisee when I followed OSAS eternal security gospel. Because anyone who reflects the bible was a pharisee. This is a lie OSAS gospel.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
People hate those who believe in holy living why?

Because it shows they are living a sinful lifestyle.

I used to think someone who Obeys the bible was a pharisee when I followed OSAS eternal security gospel. Because anyone who reflects the bible was a pharisee. This is a lie OSAS gospel.
No one hates anyone.

We hate the doctrine that denies the Holiness of Christ Jesus and offer the "flesh" as holy in Christ's place, you have it completely backwards.

We actually have the correct lifestyle because our life is hid in Christ, we are partakers of His divine nature and Him there is no sin and we live out what is an "internal reality" not adopt an external lifestyle plan.

Adopting a "behaviour modification program" and slapping the name of Jesus on it......... is not Christianity and best you flee from your false teacher.

And "holy" means to "set apart" by the way
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,856
3,793
113
How do we do that is the real question

Bdf is pretty much one word against another
Hello,

Pleased to meet you.

I would answer your question.

But if you don't mind can I ask you a question?

Mind you if you do, too late:cool:

How do you think we do this?