Not By Works
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Rom 6:15-16
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Hi Bill,
I can but take responsibility for my own actions.
Praise God the Lord knows who are His. Thorns and thistles do not come from a good heart.
If one wants enemies, they can always easily be made. Some believe things are innocent, but
some personalities create these situations and then blame theology or spiritual forces when
it is just their personality style. If this is repeated across 20+ people the same type of interactions
it will be a personality style, because the common ingredient is the provoker, and not the audience.
And these personalities come from all positions, but they have a common theme, tumult.
What I love is the stimulation of these environments, and the breadth of knowledge and experience.
So much to learn and share, Praise the Lord, Amen.
I hope we can learn the difference between loving discussion and just unnecessary provocation.
God bless you
I can but take responsibility for my own actions.
Praise God the Lord knows who are His. Thorns and thistles do not come from a good heart.
If one wants enemies, they can always easily be made. Some believe things are innocent, but
some personalities create these situations and then blame theology or spiritual forces when
it is just their personality style. If this is repeated across 20+ people the same type of interactions
it will be a personality style, because the common ingredient is the provoker, and not the audience.
And these personalities come from all positions, but they have a common theme, tumult.
What I love is the stimulation of these environments, and the breadth of knowledge and experience.
So much to learn and share, Praise the Lord, Amen.
I hope we can learn the difference between loving discussion and just unnecessary provocation.
God bless you
The problem is believing the door is open does not mean we are not secure in Christ.
When you fly in a plane you know the doors can open when you land, but that knowledge does
not mean you are unsafe to fly or you will not arrive at your destination.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and that seal remains as long as the Holy Spirit remains.
Talking from only one perspective does not make the other perspective untrue or wrong.
OSAS is a belief about how we are secure in Christ, not the security itself.
If you can grasp this you can begin to grasp what Paul is saying
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8
When you fly in a plane you know the doors can open when you land, but that knowledge does
not mean you are unsafe to fly or you will not arrive at your destination.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and that seal remains as long as the Holy Spirit remains.
Talking from only one perspective does not make the other perspective untrue or wrong.
OSAS is a belief about how we are secure in Christ, not the security itself.
If you can grasp this you can begin to grasp what Paul is saying
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8
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There is something seriously wrong here. Most in these discussions have agreed working to
be saved is wrong. To then accuse people of something they do not believe or hold to is not
honest or sensible, it is just provoking a response, unnecessarily. But that is the objective.
Enemies are no good if they are passive, loving and nice.
Discussion about back slidden believes is healthy, but to claim it does not matter or there
is a place for the lost and rebellious in Gods heaven is absurd. No scripture supports this.
The Lord supports humble contrite sinners who desire to walk with Him in His ways.
To then attack such believers as evil is to oppose the people of God. The people of God
are the light, shinning Christs love to the world. There is no other group, and it is this
love Jesus says which defines His people.
In the end the theological reasons for beating up believers changes, but the attacks do
not. It is always a question of, if a righteous people are under attack, better join the
loving righteous people than face the wrath of God when it comes. God bless you
be saved is wrong. To then accuse people of something they do not believe or hold to is not
honest or sensible, it is just provoking a response, unnecessarily. But that is the objective.
Enemies are no good if they are passive, loving and nice.
Discussion about back slidden believes is healthy, but to claim it does not matter or there
is a place for the lost and rebellious in Gods heaven is absurd. No scripture supports this.
The Lord supports humble contrite sinners who desire to walk with Him in His ways.
To then attack such believers as evil is to oppose the people of God. The people of God
are the light, shinning Christs love to the world. There is no other group, and it is this
love Jesus says which defines His people.
In the end the theological reasons for beating up believers changes, but the attacks do
not. It is always a question of, if a righteous people are under attack, better join the
loving righteous people than face the wrath of God when it comes. God bless you
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So you can do nothing about a losable salvation (reasoning from your belief), yet you feel as secure as a passenger with common sense in this analogy
interesting!
interesting!
They actually want to ignore vast amounts of Scriptures, while INSISTING, that CHRIST IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO COMPLETE OUR SALVATION, we have to do our part too; which is a FALSE DOCTRINE. Christ is SUFFICIENT, and Our Obedience are HOW WE CAN LOVE GOD and the Brethren too. That is what this verse actually MEANS:
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me {SAVED and How We Love GOD}, you will keep {that is the NEW NATURE of our Human Spirit, once we have been
Born Again} My commands.
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I will unpack this idea, to see if I can get it right.
Salvation is a gift which we recieve through faith with following Jesus, obeying His words.
Salvation does not exist if we do not believe with works.
We do not have salvation if we do not have faith with works in our lives presently.
We do not earn salvation by works, works are its fruit from our faith in Jesus and seeing Him and His
love through the cross.
Your proposal is security cannot be found in the cross and the love Jesus shows to His people?
If you cannot see this security then you cannot have it at present.
Apart from the above realities I cannot fathom what you mean. I know security in Christ because I
know He loves me because of the cross and I am secure in Him. If I was to betray Him, why should He
stand by me. He has never promised He would do so, in fact the opposite.
32 Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
John 5
If one accepts Jesus is eternal and so are His words, listen to them and take heed.
He supports His people who testify to Him and disowns those who deny and leave Him.
Salvation is a gift which we recieve through faith with following Jesus, obeying His words.
Salvation does not exist if we do not believe with works.
We do not have salvation if we do not have faith with works in our lives presently.
We do not earn salvation by works, works are its fruit from our faith in Jesus and seeing Him and His
love through the cross.
Your proposal is security cannot be found in the cross and the love Jesus shows to His people?
If you cannot see this security then you cannot have it at present.
Apart from the above realities I cannot fathom what you mean. I know security in Christ because I
know He loves me because of the cross and I am secure in Him. If I was to betray Him, why should He
stand by me. He has never promised He would do so, in fact the opposite.
32 Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
John 5
If one accepts Jesus is eternal and so are His words, listen to them and take heed.
He supports His people who testify to Him and disowns those who deny and leave Him.
U
fyi... our faith is not in OSAS... the object of our faith is Jesus.....Christ Jesus is the strongest evidence, a complete and full payment for sin.
Most people that argue against security of salvation believe that some sin has yet to be paid for or that our will is above God's will and we can make God "unforgive" or take back a gift.
If I state you are forgiven, you have no power over my decision... every argument they put forward fails.
Most of all scripture is clear too!
And I just jumped in Oops ... please forgive me!!
Most people that argue against security of salvation believe that some sin has yet to be paid for or that our will is above God's will and we can make God "unforgive" or take back a gift.
If I state you are forgiven, you have no power over my decision... every argument they put forward fails.
Most of all scripture is clear too!
And I just jumped in Oops ... please forgive me!!