Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Just finished reading Luke 18 and decided to google “eye of the needle” which led to the following from gty.org:

Luke 18:25 is one of the clearest testimonies from our Lord on the inability of man to do anything to save himself. This doctrine of total inability is a vital component to the gospel; it highlights the impossibility of salvation apart from a sovereign work of God in a person’s heart. More than that it highlights God’s grace in that He does do that work. For that reason this text should lead to humble praise of our God and Savior.

Praise be to God in the Highest.

25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Luke 8

A rich man in Jesus's time has wealth through the manual labour of others. Wealth provides security on buying your
way out of trouble and never having to come to terms with ones own sin and evil and reaching out to others for help.
The lesson is such men do not have the language or understanding or focus of God. Loss, hardship do not register, they
are above ordinary people, they are chosen to be blessed and deserve all they get because of their talents.

To be placed at that point of total desperation and abandonment, when one calls out to God for help has not taken
place, so many layers of sin and defence before one even scrapes the surface and so many others to sacrifice before
the big man is even scratched. Like the big mafia boss, who can stand against them or dare to bring them down.
And their sins are because of others, and circumstance, or else they would have been a nice caring person.

 

[UnderGrace]

Just finished reading Luke 18 and decided to google “eye of the needle” which led to the following from gty.org:

Luke 18:25 is one of the clearest testimonies from our Lord on the inability of man to do anything to save himself. This doctrine of total inability is a vital component to the gospel; it highlights the impossibility of salvation apart from a sovereign work of God in a person’s heart. More than that it highlights God’s grace in that He does do that work. For that reason this text should lead to humble praise of our God and Savior.

Praise be to God in the Highest.

In the case of "gty" I tend to run in the other direction....however, does he state what the eye of the needle is?

 

[UnderGrace]

You might want to reflect on your own words above. Heed the warning.

This is a joke right? ....sometimes I need help understanding cause I am not that smart.

 

[OneOfHis]

This is a joke right? ....sometimes I need help understanding cause I am not that smart.

Nahhhh, you agree with me often enough to qualify as smart.

 

[UnderGrace]

Nahhhh, you agree with me often enough to qualify as smart.

Love it.... made my day!!

 

[DeighAnn]

For anyone who was just browsing and wondering. In the walled cities there was a Main gate to get into the city by day. At night, the main gate was closed, and little gate called the Needle Gate, a low and narrow after-hours entrance found in the wall was purposely small for security reasons, and a camel could only go through it by stripping off any saddles or packs and crawling through on its knees. It could barely fit a camel. If a rich man with a camel all packed with goods would come to the city after dark, he would have to unload his entire load, bring the animal in and then load it up again, harder to go through the eye of a needle....

 

[BillG]

For anyone who was just browsing and wondering. In the walled cities there was a Main gate to get into the city by day. At night, the main gate was closed, and little gate called the Needle Gate, a low and narrow after-hours entrance found in the wall was purposely small for security reasons, and a camel could only go through it by stripping off any saddles or packs and crawling through on its knees. It could barely fit a camel. If a rich man with a camel all packed with goods would come to the city after dark, he would have to unload his entire load, bring the animal in and then load it up again, harder to go through the eye of a needle....

That's was my understanding understanding.

Although I have read that the word camel was misinterpreted.
The Greek for camel 'Kamelos' was used instead of 'Kamilos or Camella'
Kamilos/Camella being a rope
This was according to Cyril of Alexandria.

If memory serves me I think role in those days was made out of camel hair.

The term eye of a needle is used in the Talmud.

The eye of a sewing needle is the part formed into a loop for pulling thread, located at the end opposite from the point.

You can pull a thread through the eye but not a rope.

Either way it doesn't matter.
Well not to me anyways.

It's the point that Jesus was making that counts.

Whether it be trying to pull a thick through the eye of a needle or a camel being unloaded.

We must remember

Matthew 19:25
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

The Pharisees believed God gave wealth to those he loves.
They would therefore have taught that.

The rich man

Matthew 19:18-22
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 Honor your father and your mother,’ and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

His riches was his idol.
Therefore he fell foul of the 1-4 of the 10 commandments.
He loved his wealth more than God.

That was the issue Jesus was addressing.

So as I said it doesn't matter to me how we interpret or think of the eye of needle.
It's the revelation that Jesus was trying to convey.

 

[BillG]

Nahhhh, you agree with me often enough to qualify as smart.

We have a saying over here.

Great minds think alike but fools seldom differ.

You are not a fool.
There you go.

This old man over this side of the pond loves this young man over the otherside of the pond.

Very proud of you.

Walk as Jesus has asked you to.
Talk as Jesus has asked you to.

 

[VCO]

That's was my understanding understanding.

Although I have read that the word camel was misinterpreted.
The Greek for camel 'Kamelos' was used instead of 'Kamilos or Camella'
Kamilos/Camella being a rope
This was according to Cyril of Alexandria.

If memory serves me I think role in those days was made out of camel hair.

The term eye of a needle is used in the Talmud.

The eye of a sewing needle is the part formed into a loop for pulling thread, located at the end opposite from the point.

You can pull a thread through the eye but not a rope.

Either way it doesn't matter.
Well not to me anyways.

It's the point that Jesus was making that counts.

Whether it be trying to pull a thick through the eye of a needle or a camel being unloaded.

We must remember

Matthew 19:25
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

The Pharisees believed God gave wealth to those he loves.
They would therefore have taught that.

The rich man

Matthew 19:18-22
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 Honor your father and your mother,’ and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

His riches was his idol.
Therefore he fell foul of the 1-4 of the 10 commandments.
He loved his wealth more than God.

That was the issue Jesus was addressing.

So as I said it doesn't matter to me how we interpret or think of the eye of needle.
It's the revelation that Jesus was trying to convey.

However, this according to historians who flatly disagree, on the location of the Needle Gate in the wall Jerusalem.
Jesus's use of "camel through the eye of a needle" aphorism. Because of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. makes it nearly impossible to tell where the exact Location of the Needle Gate, nearly impossible today.

This Possible Location the Gate Door, made it much smaller than it actually was.

This Possible Location is Narrow enough the Cargo Laden Camel would have had to be unloaded and carried through the Eye of the Needle Gate by hand.

Others say This is IT.
Some say THIS IS IT, and
the steps are NEWER, so
they would not have been there.

Still others Say this is IT, even though it looks way too large.
Still others say THIS IS IT.

IF I was to GUESS, like everyone else, the Following seems to be the most likely:

The Smallness and the SHAPE of the EYE is more distinctive.
Those steps were not there at the time of Christ.

 

[stonesoffire]

This is such an odd response. Is the idea talking about a ban is threatening or worrying?
I think so, but then some are not comfortable in their own faith and position in Christ.

Shutting out other voices is the only way to survive. Sad, that the faith and rooting in Jesus
is not enough, because He is our King and Lord. Amen.

I don’t think other voices is the way the forums are set up here. It seems to me that truth is what is desired.

 

[BillG]

However, this according to historians who flatly disagree, on the location of the Needle Gate in the wall Jerusalem.
Jesus's use of "camel through the eye of a needle" aphorism. Because of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. makes it nearly impossible to tell where the exact Location of the Needle Gate, nearly impossible today.

This Possible Location the Gate Door, made it much smaller than it actually was.

This Possible Location is Narrow enough the Cargo Laden Camel would have had to be unloaded and carried through the Eye of the Needle Gate by hand.

View attachment 202618 View attachment 202619 Others say This is IT.
Some say THIS IS IT, and
the steps are NEWER, so
they would not have been there.

View attachment 202620 View attachment 202621 Still others Say this is IT, even though it looks way too large.
Still others say THIS IS IT.

IF I was to GUESS, like everyone else, the Following seems to be the most likely:

View attachment 202622

The Smallness and the SHAPE of the EYE is more distinctive.
Those steps were not there at the time of Christ.

Totally agree given my research.

aphorism

I was aware of that word but have no idea what it means.
What does it mean in the context?

 

[OneOfHis]

We have a saying over here.

Great minds think alike but fools seldom differ.

You are not a fool.
There you go.

This old man over this side of the pond loves this young man over the otherside of the pond.

Very proud of you.

Walk as Jesus has asked you to.
Talk as Jesus has asked you to.

Love you brother, and I really do appreciate the encouragement....

Very easy for us all to get caught up in the trials while we are so far from home, but we are blessed beyond what words can describe through our merciful God.

Some of us have a thick skin and are more prone to fight against the lies of the enemy, others have a thick skin and are more prone to forgive offenses and try to reason with those who may reject the truth....

As a member of the body of Christ I have always seen you as a gentle outstretched hand hoping to help lift those who need it...

(Maybe I am more like a foot... useful to swiftly connect to the rear of someone needs a push😃)

Hahaha
jp jp

But seriously... I appreciate your stance and love how God uses you bro....

 

[Hemustincrease]

Swish with water and activated charcoal (NOT regular charcoal) it will eliminate (adsorb) any infection, and you can also place some activated charcoal on small paper towel and keep pressed on the side or top of tooth (just hold jaw shut), can swallow the activated charcoal won't hurt, unless you are on meds (it will also adsorb those also).

Also, you can swish with water mixed with cayenne pepper, as the cayenne numbs the nerve endings (do not swallow).

Hi I am new here, I haven't read all this thread, just really saying hello I guess and making my way around the place. I like the idea of natural remedies as opposed to pain killers and antibiotics thanks for the tips. Goodness seems like a lot of controversy in this thread though

 

[BillG]

Love you brother, and I really do appreciate the encouragement....

Very easy for us all to get caught up in the trials while we are so far from home, but we are blessed beyond what words can describe through our merciful God.

Some of us have a thick skin and are more prone to fight against the lies of the enemy, others have a thick skin and are more prone to forgive offenses and try to reason with those who may reject the truth....

As a member of the body of Christ I have always seen you as a gentle outstretched hand hoping to help lift those who need it...

(Maybe I am more like a foot... useful to swiftly connect to the rear of someone needs a push😃)

Hahaha
jp jp

But seriously... I appreciate your stance and love how God uses you bro....

We are the body of Christ.

The body has many parts.

I'm happy to be the ass.

 

[BillG]

Hi I am new here, I haven't read all this thread, just really saying hello I guess and making my way around the place. I like the idea of natural remedies as opposed to pain killers and antibiotics thanks for the tips. Goodness seems like a lot of controversy in this thread though

Hi new here.

 

[Hemustincrease]

Hi new here.

Hello brother from another mother. Nice to meet you. I have not read much of this thread. I think it would take too long but I enjoyed reading your post on the eye of the needle. Thanks for sharing that Bill, I learned something today.

 

[DeighAnn]

That's was my understanding understanding.

Although I have read that the word camel was misinterpreted.
The Greek for camel 'Kamelos' was used instead of 'Kamilos or Camella'
Kamilos/Camella being a rope
This was according to Cyril of Alexandria.

If memory serves me I think role in those days was made out of camel hair.

The term eye of a needle is used in the Talmud.

The eye of a sewing needle is the part formed into a loop for pulling thread, located at the end opposite from the point.

You can pull a thread through the eye but not a rope.

Either way it doesn't matter.
Well not to me anyways.

It's the point that Jesus was making that counts.

Whether it be trying to pull a thick through the eye of a needle or a camel being unloaded.

We must remember

Matthew 19:25
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

The Pharisees believed God gave wealth to those he loves.
They would therefore have taught that.

The rich man

Matthew 19:18-22
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 Honor your father and your mother,’ and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

His riches was his idol.
Therefore he fell foul of the 1-4 of the 10 commandments.
He loved his wealth more than God.

That was the issue Jesus was addressing.

So as I said it doesn't matter to me how we interpret or think of the eye of needle.
It's the revelation that Jesus was trying to convey.

Did you ever hear that the young man, in the garden when they came to arrest Jesus, who when they grabbed his top and he ran away naked was that rich man, who had gone and sold all he had to follow The Christ? I don't know if it was him, some say it was the young lad, Mark, but I like to think it was that man.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus did not say it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle gate.........God is specific with the words he inspired and or used..........!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus did not say it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle gate.........God is specific with the words he inspired and or used..........!!

So then it was an actual sewing needle He was referring to?

I have read both sides but the idea seemed the same so I just let it go at that.

But I will take your word for it Mr. dCon, oops I mean David... hahaha

 

[dcontroversal]

So then it was an actual sewing needle He was referring to?

I have read both sides but the idea seemed the same so I just let it go at that.

But I will take your word for it Mr. dCon, oops I mean David... hahaha

I just stick with the inspired words.....IMV if he meant a gate he would have said a gate.....