Not By Works

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U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hi UG,

Clearly you have not understood what I am saying, because it is not something you can absolutely reject and
be a believer. It is language of black and white, without discussion, empathy or understanding.

Until you can see everything in life is relative to our perspective, you cannot be master of ones perspective
rather than a victim of it.

What you have said simply is your view is the Gods view, and any other view is a private interpretation.
This is where arrogance and pomposity begin. There are as many views as there are people on earth.
It is the Holy Spirit and Jesus who speaks His word to our hearts. And by listening, having fellowship,
a pure heart, praise and living in the shadow of the cross it becomes clear.

So you have not even begun to see the greatness of Gods revelation in scripture.
But I said this was the problem
, :D:LOL::ROFL: which you have confirmed. God bless you.

So you have not even begun to see the greatness of Gods revelation in scripture.
But I said this was the problem
, which you have confirmed. God bless you.

Proud of your diagnosis... wow and I did not even have to pay, my lucky day.

If this makes any sense ........but your are so offensive that you are actually unoffensive... probably this is connected to the value I place on your posts.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
That one week child if saved then it is not through their faith, their salvation is free from faith. They never heard the gospel and they still don't believe in anything.

It is obviously not through faith. not any category of faith.
Best you go rethink, pray and mostly stop contradicting plain scripture because that is really not a good thing.

I myself have a pile of work to do which I have neglected. Farewell
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,661
113
"Yet, it is your belief, persuaded or not"

Yikes... no one can believe unless they are persuaded.

Wow ... you deny the free gift of salvation.

I guess you are part of the 80% of a poll stating that works have a part in reaching heaven.

Good thing 80% are wrong and Jesus is right... they are on the broad path it would seem.
The statistics you cited are deeply saddening. Our church leaders are failing the masses.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
11,250
2,915
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Does God cause you to believe?
==========================================================
He surely did, we thank Him daily for this -
ROMANS 10:20.
But Esaias is very bold, and saith,
I was found of them that sought Me(Christ) not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me(Christ).
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
==========================================================
He surely did, we thank Him daily for this -
ROMANS 10:20.
But Esaias is very bold, and saith,
I was found of them that sought Me(Christ) not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me(Christ).
To me, this prophesy means; those that did not even seek God, were found by God, but those that God is calling His people, the ones that God's word came to, fail because of lack of knowledge. God has stretched wide open His hands but they reject Him.

The reason judgement day as shown in Matthew 25 is full of surprises.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,749
3,980
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I personally believe the "salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." is referring to the RESURRECTION. Getting a glorified body. Im sure VCO agrees with that!

Just saying that in case someone thinks we cant know if we're saved TODAY. WE CAN and SHOULD. If you don't know you're saved today reading this get on your knees and make SURE you KNOW that you KNOW that you are saved!


Then you would be wrong. Salvation is of the Human Spirit, and bodily resurrection is a promise because HE WAS RAISED.


John 3:3-7 (NASB)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
[That BORN AGAIN is not talking about the BODY, but rather, it is talking about the Human Spirit.]

John 5:24 (HCSB)
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life [the body will die, Human Spirit is now Eternal] and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. [in the Human Spirit.]

Luke 19:9 (HCSB)
9 Today salvation has come to this house,” Jesus told him, “because he too is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (NRSV)
2 For he says, "At an acceptable time I have listened to you, and on a day of salvation I have helped you." See, now is the acceptable time; see, now is the day of salvation!


Salvation is A FREE GIFT that effects the Human Spirit and it's way of thinking, and this body will die. Yes, there will be a resurrection of the Glorified Body, but that is not SALVATION, we already have received SALVATION when our Human Spirit was BORN AGAIN.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. See, that is how long again, our Human Spirit, was saved, waiting for us to receive HIM.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,142
9,738
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These analogies are not really commensurate with our Faith in Christ.
yeah,

it's often likened to a life preserver being thrown to a man adrift in the sea -- and will you take hold of it?

but the truth is closer to, a dead & bloated corpse floating near the surface. made alive and being taught to walk on water.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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I ask if you may. If God has already given you the gift are you willing to throw that away?
Never.

Just in case, for that one, I'll take the heat.

Not. about. me. Not about truth. About any and every "doctrine" that leads to others believing a lie.

About what leads to the false belief that you have been saved, and that is eternal, and those believing they have it when they don't but they never even question their state, ever again till the day they stand before God and He says I never knew you.

Is there anyone acknowledgeing the Evil that exists and is working night and day to steal the souls of Gods Children?

It says worship me. Not the true God. The easy God.

Human nature, especially human nature void of Gods truth, will always go for the easy A. You get a hold of someone in a weakened state of life searching for a moment and give them this doctrine that says "all you have to do, be saved forever is" and for a moment they jump all over that, then life distracts and they walk away taking with them this false belief, "believing" they have received something they have not. It makes the Word of God of no effect. It removes the need to 'continue seeking' after Him. They want to hear nothing that will take that belief away. They may even believe "ignorance" will help.

Do they really need to study the Word? Not no more, they were saved once. Do they need to pray and repent and talk to God everyday? No, they did that once and no one can take that away. But "we" know there is nothing to take away

This is not about the "captured by Christ" This is about "the doctrine" of it and how it can and is being used by the "evil" of this air, to easily deceive those so that they never have a chance.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
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I would say personal comments are fine if they are true and one is sure they are true!

Personal comments are not okay when they are not true, and are made because of a bruised ego.... like these types of situations......

1. Like being called a liar for a comment that was an obvious statement of exaggeration.

2. Like being called anti-Semitic and filled with hate for stating that the modern day state of Israel is a secular nation.

3. Like when a person(s) is so insecure about themselves and can only bolster their self-image by snarky meaningless remarks that are not even remotely connected to trying to defend a scriptural precept but just purely personal.


Interestingly enough is those that support OSAS on BDF, are not so prone to false assumptions, lying and false personal attacks that I have seen over the past three years.

Above all this, the essential Gospel must be vigorously defended because Satan does not take a day off.

Truth encapsulates love not the other way around.
I was not looking for this UG, but just reading Ephesians this morning out of the Complete Jewish Bible. This is what it says about speaking the truth in love.

Ephesians 5

11 Furthermore, he gave some people as emissaries, some as prophets, some as proclaimers of the Good News, and some as shepherds and teachers.

12 Their task is to equip God’s people for the work of service that builds the body of the Messiah,

13 until we all arrive at the unity implied by trusting and knowing the Son of God, at full manhood, at the standard of maturity set by the Messiah’s perfection.

14 We will then no longer be infants tossed about by the waves and blown along by every wind of teaching, at the mercy of people clever in devising ways to deceive.

15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in every respect grow up into him who is the head, the Messiah.

16 Under his control, the whole body is being fitted and held together by the support of every joint, with each part working to fulfill its function; this is how the body grows and builds itself up in love.

Under His Control. That’s what stood out to me.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
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Faith is gift, and it is also a work. Without faith we cannot please God. And we choose to exercise
faith. It is a dependency of salvation, without it, there is no fulfilment of the promise.

This needs to be made very clear.
It is what God needs us to do.

6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Heb 11

This is faith that lasts not a flash in the pan.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last.
John 15

We only have eternal life if we have faith to the end.

22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit
you reap leads to holiness
, and the result is eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
Rom 6

We are one in Christ Jesus, one in our hearts, love ruling all our actions.
Faith is a gift, true amen. But, it’s not a work pertaining to us, it’s the gift that grows each time we see the results of faith from Father. Strengthens might be a better way to explain.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Proud of your diagnosis... wow and I did not even have to pay, my lucky day.

If this makes any sense ........but your are so offensive that you are actually unoffensive... probably this is connected to the value I place on your posts.
I am offensive? I repeat again Jesus is my Lord, the one I follow. If I am offensive to you then so
is my Lord. You cannot hold with Jesus and reject those who listen and follow His voice.

Did you not learn this in your discipleship? Loving the body of Christ is being part of Christ.
So are you a dear sister or one who is in rebellion?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Faith is a gift, true amen. But, it’s not a work pertaining to us, it’s the gift that grows each time we see the results of faith from Father. Strengthens might be a better way to explain.
I agree faith is a gift. But also faith is an action. Faith without action is dead.
I have been in so many situations, where I wanted the Lord to confirm something to my heart.
Until I responded and took action, only then did the conviction and blessing came.

So I am a slow learner. I have learnt the Lord gives and shares, but unless we move it is not there.
I seems wrong to our logic, but this is spiritual reality, and so many times we are commanded not
to test the Lord, but to ask when in need, and our gracious Lord will answer. It is what I have found
in my life.

God bless you
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I was not looking for this UG, but just reading Ephesians this morning out of the Complete Jewish Bible. This is what it says about speaking the truth in love.

Ephesians 5

11 Furthermore, he gave some people as emissaries, some as prophets, some as proclaimers of the Good News, and some as shepherds and teachers.

12 Their task is to equip God’s people for the work of service that builds the body of the Messiah,

13 until we all arrive at the unity implied by trusting and knowing the Son of God, at full manhood, at the standard of maturity set by the Messiah’s perfection.

14 We will then no longer be infants tossed about by the waves and blown along by every wind of teaching, at the mercy of people clever in devising ways to deceive.

15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in every respect grow up into him who is the head, the Messiah.

16 Under his control, the whole body is being fitted and held together by the support of every joint, with each part working to fulfill its function; this is how the body grows and builds itself up in love.

Under His Control. That’s what stood out to me.
Just giving that a practical application on bible discussion board.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
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Not really maintaining salvation but hope for salvation. Yeaah, you can also say maintain salvation because salvation is assured IF we persevere to the very end.
Endure is the word Noose, and if you read the whole of the scripture in context, the author is asking in the day of trouble, will you remain in my love?

I have a poem that was given to me...inspired...and in it that very question was asked will it be enough in the day of our trouble? What do we do. The answer from Holy Spirit was to shine with the light that we have been given. It’s brighter than day of our sun.

My Child, it's not sacrifice that I am pleased with
I gave You the best gift that man cannot match.

It's your yes and amen, I believe You My Father
Yes Lord I trust You...my heart is stedfast..

But is that enough O My Father to trust You?
Can I stand fast in the day of our trouble?
What will we do when our days rise up evil?
And darkness is covering this land?

You shine like the Son with the light I have given
My Child it is brighter than day of your sun.
I've given you oil in your lamp and will guide you
Your footsteps won't falter, your race will be won

His work working in us. Believe is our obedience.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Never.

About what leads to the false belief that you have been saved, and that is eternal, and those believing they have it when they don't but they never even question their state, ever again till the day they stand before God and He says I never knew you.
If your faith is in GOD, HIS PROMISES and in HIS WORK.

Why would you EVER QUESTION ANYTHING AGAIN?

If you HAVE TO QUESTION your status, You are NOT PLACING YOUR FAIHT IN GOD! PERIOD!

That is NOT ENTERING HIS REST!

And I do not care if your a man or woman, If you say we have to question our eternity, Your not placing your faith in CHRiST, PERIOD!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
Yet, it is your belief, persuaded or not. You are trying to say salvation is absolutely free, no condition but also say that we have to be persuaded and believe. Doesn't work.

David, full of the spirit of God still planned against God for months. The Holy spirit only gives us understanding, what we do with the understanding is our own choices. The reason the bible says 'do not grieve the Holy spirit'.
I’m so far behind so sorry...but

David did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. His anointing was upon not within.

I do agree with what you are saying about all the world is saved. The stone in the road is the rock called Christ though who has to be picked up. Received to benefit. Not received? No change of nature. Cannot dwell with Father without.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Best you go rethink, pray and mostly stop contradicting plain scripture because that is really not a good thing.

I myself have a pile of work to do which I have neglected. Farewell
It is clear on a forum such as this we look at these issues differently.
Telling others they are wrong and need to do something else is not going to work.

Understanding and seeing with respect each others position works, respect the individuals and
sees there is a good heart intention involved.

If one side say you are in sin, evil, deceived, doomed to hell individual is not really a good starting
place. If someone says I sin daily and God does not mind, I lie, speed, get annoyed, want to murder
people, steal, slander but hey thats all in a days work, there may be a hard road to climb.

You might notice the open sinner saying there is sin in another is not actually on good ground.
How do they know? How can they see beyond their own sin and failure? Do they even know what
victory and success look like? Holiness, purity, blamelessness, loving, having patience, self control,
endurance etc. From this thread alone, just reading posts is enough to send some over the edge.
On both sides, which is why conflicts can erupt too easily. God bless you all.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
I agree faith is a gift. But also faith is an action. Faith without action is dead.
I have been in so many situations, where I wanted the Lord to confirm something to my heart.
Until I responded and took action, only then did the conviction and blessing came.

So I am a slow learner. I have learnt the Lord gives and shares, but unless we move it is not there.
I seems wrong to our logic, but this is spiritual reality, and so many times we are commanded not
to test the Lord, but to ask when in need, and our gracious Lord will answer. It is what I have found
in my life.

God bless you
If He is speaking to you personally to do something, then yes, your action would be the response to His Voice, but the act itself would be in His power, would it not? Even faith itself being the gift of God is action on His part, not ours. Faith is active. Spirit.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
I’m so far behind so sorry...but

David did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. His anointing was upon not within.

I do agree with what you are saying about all the world is saved. The stone in the road is the rock called Christ though who has to be picked up. Received to benefit. Not received? No change of nature. Cannot dwell with Father without.
Also noose, I think your understanding of Holy Spirit needs some experience? He is a very real Presence.