Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
My understanding is that the tares are false teachers.
What we know is that the enemy, satan planted the tares.
The workers knew there were tares.
So they had some knowledge between the difference of the two.
Jesus would not allow the workers to weed out the tares but told them to leave to judgement day.
The reason I think this, is because it can be difficult to distinguish who is a genuine beliver and who is not.
We know that we have the 30/60/100 fold
Matthew 13:8
8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted!
We know that fruit takes time to grow.
So at times we can be guilty of judging who we believe are belivers and not based on what we see.
So the reason I think it can be false teachers
Matthew 15:12-14
12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?”
13 Jesus replied, “Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be uprooted,14 so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch.”
What we know is that the enemy, satan planted the tares.
The workers knew there were tares.
So they had some knowledge between the difference of the two.
Jesus would not allow the workers to weed out the tares but told them to leave to judgement day.
The reason I think this, is because it can be difficult to distinguish who is a genuine beliver and who is not.
We know that we have the 30/60/100 fold
Matthew 13:8
8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted!
We know that fruit takes time to grow.
So at times we can be guilty of judging who we believe are belivers and not based on what we see.
So the reason I think it can be false teachers
Matthew 15:12-14
12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?”
13 Jesus replied, “Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be uprooted,14 so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch.”
-
4
- Show all
You know.....not mouthing, but MANY fail to acknowledge that believers come in every flavor and level of matrurity.....from men like the Corinthian brother rebuked for hia sin all the way up to JOHN THE APOSTLE.....from honest uber faithful to the Samsons and Davids that fail God grieveously YET ALL REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD dia faith and eternally saved, sealed, justified and sanctified positionally in Christ.......
Remember what Jesus said.....and all you workers for and salvation losers pay attention and EMBRACE THIS TRUTH....
He that TEACHES BUT DOES NOT DO SHALL BE LEAST IN THE KINDOM<----And pay attention....THEY ARE STILL IN THE KINGDOM EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DO what they WERE TEACHING!!!!!
Remember what Jesus said.....and all you workers for and salvation losers pay attention and EMBRACE THIS TRUTH....
He that TEACHES BUT DOES NOT DO SHALL BE LEAST IN THE KINDOM<----And pay attention....THEY ARE STILL IN THE KINGDOM EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DO what they WERE TEACHING!!!!!
-
4
- Show all
Example....the nice old couple next door....they always smile, give a lending hand, don't drink, cuss or do drugs, morally upright decent peoplw....Married 45 years, well respected in the community, members of the Golf Course, everyone speaks well of them but have not graced a chirch door once, except when they got married and neither one had ever trusted Jesus by faith <<<Sounds just like my Grandma and Grandpa..both saved!
-
1
- Show all
For those who do not know what Tares are, they are weeds, the look just like WHEAT, until the Head forms.
WHEAT is usually shorter than TARES, thicker Heads than the Tares, and WHEAT usually ripens sooner than the Tares.
Yes they can be a Nuisanse, but the Lord says we are to leave them be, as long as they do not try to take over the service.
WHY ? ? ?
Romans 10:14-17 (NASB)
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
The Lord is in the business of turning some of the Tares, into WHEAT.
-
2
- Show all
I know what you're doing Mac. You're changing the meaning of the words because you don't like what it says. Basically you are trying to tell me that you know more about Koine Greek than all of the translators of the KJV, NIV, NASB and ESV knew. I don't think so friend.
Leave the words alone, believe what they say and you will be blessed by them. That verse tells us EXACTLY what the "born of God" man is... it is the man formed in us by the incorruptible word of God.... And it is IMPOSSIBLE for that man to sin.
1 John 3:9 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
1 John 3:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 No one who is [a]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [b]born of God.
1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:9 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God’s seed abides in them;[a] they cannot sin, because they have been born of God.
Leave the words alone, believe what they say and you will be blessed by them. That verse tells us EXACTLY what the "born of God" man is... it is the man formed in us by the incorruptible word of God.... And it is IMPOSSIBLE for that man to sin.
1 John 3:9 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
1 John 3:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 No one who is [a]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [b]born of God.
1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:9 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God’s seed abides in them;[a] they cannot sin, because they have been born of God.
The field is the world. But the wheat (believers) were planted, and then the Tares were sown in among them.
This is how I see it.
A. The world was lost and dark
B. God planted His Kingdom in the world.
C. Satan planted Tares infiltrating and imitating Gods work.
This is more in sync with what the Bible says is happening, because God did not plant the wheat before there were unbelievers in the world. There have always been unbelievers in the world. They weren’t planted in the world after believers, but they are and were infiltrating the church.
But we can agree to disagree
This is how I see it.
A. The world was lost and dark
B. God planted His Kingdom in the world.
C. Satan planted Tares infiltrating and imitating Gods work.
This is more in sync with what the Bible says is happening, because God did not plant the wheat before there were unbelievers in the world. There have always been unbelievers in the world. They weren’t planted in the world after believers, but they are and were infiltrating the church.
But we can agree to disagree
Did you actually read the versions you posted? How many of the ones you used employed the words (continue in) and (practice). All but two. And if you look at other translations, you will see the great majority use the word practice or continue in
That is because, believe it or not, The translators DO know the function of Greek verbs. That is why most translations read whoever is born of God does not practice sin. Check it and see.
And in another verse in the text, the KJV puts eth at the end of the verb sin. That is a recognition of the verb function.
The function of the verb in koine Greek is primarily to indicate TYPE OF ACTION, not time of action as it is in engish. Ask anyone who know Greek and they will tell you.
Now do you want to know what type of action the present tense verb is indicaing?
Not punctilar
Not undefined
Not past result with continuing action
The kind of action in the verb “commit” in 1 John 3:9 is present, which would make it either continuous action in present time, or repeated action (iterative) action in present time
It is not talking about isolated, temporary instances of sin that is confessed and repented of, it is talking about a continual, habitual, repetitive lifestyle that is characterized by sin. The rest of the chapter and the entirety of the book confirms this also
Does that answer your question
That is because, believe it or not, The translators DO know the function of Greek verbs. That is why most translations read whoever is born of God does not practice sin. Check it and see.
And in another verse in the text, the KJV puts eth at the end of the verb sin. That is a recognition of the verb function.
The function of the verb in koine Greek is primarily to indicate TYPE OF ACTION, not time of action as it is in engish. Ask anyone who know Greek and they will tell you.
Now do you want to know what type of action the present tense verb is indicaing?
Not punctilar
Not undefined
Not past result with continuing action
The kind of action in the verb “commit” in 1 John 3:9 is present, which would make it either continuous action in present time, or repeated action (iterative) action in present time
It is not talking about isolated, temporary instances of sin that is confessed and repented of, it is talking about a continual, habitual, repetitive lifestyle that is characterized by sin. The rest of the chapter and the entirety of the book confirms this also
Does that answer your question
A good example of sin in another tense is the aorist tense of sin in 1 John 2:1. It is not in the present tense because John is not talking about continuous, repetitive, habitual sin. God forgives those who repent of these, but John is not talking about sin, confess, sin, confess. This does happen with Christians, even true believers, but that is not Johns intent to make confession some type of safety net for willful habitual sin, like saying it is lawful for a believer to do anything as you said
Mac you and I could discuss this for a hundred years and you're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Just let it go. I'm not into arguing over who's right and who's wrong.... I don't care who wins.
I know what I know and I try to share that with others, but if others can't see it or don't want it, then I'm cool with that.
I know what I know and I try to share that with others, but if others can't see it or don't want it, then I'm cool with that.
-
1
- Show all
Well you asked a question, so I will answer it and be done
A. 1 John 3:9 is not teaching sinless perfection. There is no one who never sins, except Jesus of course
B. The word “commit” in the phrase committeth sin is in the present tense in koine greek
C. The function of the verb in Greek is primarily to indicate type of action, not always time of action, like in english
C. The way the present tense is often used is to indicate an action that is continual, or iterative/habitual, repetitive, and progressive.
D. That is why most translators translate the phrase “ the one who is born of God does not practice or continue in sin. It is talking about habitual sinning as a way of life
E. A believer sins,but his practice is righteousness, not sin. That is his life is not marked by continual, habitual sin, or if it is, he does not remain in that state. Eventually the grace of God pulls him out of the mud
A. 1 John 3:9 is not teaching sinless perfection. There is no one who never sins, except Jesus of course
B. The word “commit” in the phrase committeth sin is in the present tense in koine greek
C. The function of the verb in Greek is primarily to indicate type of action, not always time of action, like in english
C. The way the present tense is often used is to indicate an action that is continual, or iterative/habitual, repetitive, and progressive.
D. That is why most translators translate the phrase “ the one who is born of God does not practice or continue in sin. It is talking about habitual sinning as a way of life
E. A believer sins,but his practice is righteousness, not sin. That is his life is not marked by continual, habitual sin, or if it is, he does not remain in that state. Eventually the grace of God pulls him out of the mud