Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Just amazes me. Have not heard that way of believing before.
Oh, there is a small number of them out there, and it seems like everyone of them has been on this thread on occasion. BECAUSE, I made a list of the appropriate verses, so all I have to do is copy/paste them here. I gets boring to have to keep confronting them with the same answers.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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I did not say our behavior or our will is the determining factor. The simple fact that God's salvation even exists is the determining factor in salvation. But that hardly means you do not have to access it through an abiding faith in that salvation.
Hi.

Sorry but I'm confused by what you say above that I have bolded and underlined above.

Can you explain it for me.

Ta
God's grace is applied to us through faith. Our faith is what gives us access to God's grace:

Romans 5:1 KJV
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand



Close the door of faith that gives you access to the grace of Christ by returning to unbelief and you shut yourself off from the sacrifice and ministry of Jesus that was continually ministering on your behalf in the heavenly temple:

Hebrews 7:25 NAS
He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.


That's where the 'forever' comes from in our salvation. Christ is always interceding on behalf of the one who has faith in him, as opposed to the ministry of the Levite Priests which ended because "they were prevented by death from continuing" in their ministry (vs.23) and so they could not save you forever.

The access to Christ's never ending ministry is your faith. Stop having faith in Him and you close your access to the 'forever' ministry that keeps you saved forever.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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God's grace is applied to us through faith. Our faith is what gives us access to God's grace:

Romans 5:1 KJV
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand



Close the door of faith that gives you access to the grace of Christ by returning to unbelief and you shut yourself off from the sacrifice and ministry of Jesus that was continually ministering on your behalf in the heavenly temple:

Hebrews 7:25 NAS
He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.


That's where the 'forever' comes from in our salvation. Christ is always interceding on behalf of the one who has faith in him, as opposed to the ministry of the Levite Priests which ended because "they were prevented by death from continuing" in their ministry (vs.23) and so they could not save you forever.

The access to Christ's never ending ministry is your faith. Stop having faith in Him and you close your access to the 'forever' ministry that keeps you saved forever.
Nice partial quote of Romans 5:1......shows how sneaky false teachers are...!!

Disgustingly deceptive!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Oh, there is a small number of them out there, and it seems like everyone of them has been on this thread on occasion. BECAUSE, I made a list of the appropriate verses, so all I have to do is copy/paste them here. I gets boring to have to keep confronting them with the same answers.
115442 <--read that post and notice how this deceptive false teacher leaves out the 1st part of Romans 5:1 ......sickening and evil!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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WRONG! LOOK AT ALL THE PAST TENSE VERBIAGE, and there is even MORE in the BIBLE.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [Antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not [agapaō = a Godly] love remains in death.




Acts 20:29-31 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
You are right. It is our spiritual growth that is a work in progress.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Not quite correct about the mind, GENUINE FAITH only COME FROM THE HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT).

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
I said heart.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Dude, You failed already. You will never Meet Gods standard, you will always fall short of Gods glory.

That fact you can not comprehend this just shows where your true faith lies

And it’s NOT in christ

that should tell you and everyone else all they need to know about you
None of us are righteous, we are all sinners, but thank God we are saved by His grace.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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None of us are righteous, we are all sinners, but thank God we are saved by His grace.
You obviously do not grasp the righteousness of Christ being imputed by faith and or being justified without the deeds/works of the Law!!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Yes, those kind of things happen to Born Again Christians too. We know this is not a perfect world, but we are promised the PERFECT WORLD IS YET TO COME. So your wild theory that we can not have Joy in Adverse Circumstances, is BUSTED when one is BORN AGAIN.
Maybe it is time to fire Your teachers of the past.

https://www.ultimatetitanic.com/the-famous-titanic-band

Now, I don't know who this Pastor is for sure, But he has everything right in this 8.5 minute Video, as he explains:

What is the Secret of JOY in Suffering? John Stephen Piper is an American Reformed Baptist continuationist pastor and author who is the founder and leader of desiringGod.org and is the chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Wikipedia

He is RIGHT ON, on this subject, of how to KEEP your Joy, while Suffering:

That is not what I was saying. My point was that natural disasters sometimes cause people to lose faith. They say "why did God do this to me."
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That is not what I was saying. My point was that natural disasters sometimes cause people to lose faith. They say "why did God do this to me."
Do you grasp the following truth...

IF WE BELIEVE NOT, HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF

The APOSTLE includes HIMSELF by the use of WE and it is directed at BELIEVERS

How about

IRREVOCABLE
KEPT BY HIS POWER
Begins, finishes and COMPLETES
LOSE NONE
LEAVE THE 99 TO FIND THE ONE THAT WONDERS

and the BIGGIE

If it is not of FAITH IT IS SIN

Where SIN ABOUNDS GRACE abounds the MORE <--WRITTEN to believers!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Brother....they cannot grasp...If we believe not (after belief) HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF....

Jesus said he finishes and completes the work of faith in us.....their view makes Christ an inept liar......end of story!
Oh but “if they fall away, it’s impossible to renew them,“ so even though the Bible says what your saying clear as day, that one verse proves people can fall away :rolleyes:

they make a mockery of the word of God, and in turn God himself , it’s sad
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
None of us are righteous, we are all sinners, but thank God we are saved by His grace.
Then why do you say otherwise?

if we are saved by grace, we can not LOSE salvation

if we could, then there is no salvation by grace period.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is not what I was saying. My point was that natural disasters sometimes cause people to lose faith. They say "why did God do this to me."
yes This happened to me for 5 years.

and not once in that 5 years did I lose faith that god saved me, I just lost faith in his provisions as a father, not as a savior.

we are saved because we have faith in god the savior. Not because we trust god to take care of our every need.

i did not lose my salvation, I lost my purpose and desire and found my own hell on this earth, which led me back to god. Because I then realized as the prodigal how broke I really was.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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yes This happened to me for 5 years.

and not once in that 5 years did I lose faith that god saved me, I just lost faith in his provisions as a father, not as a savior.

we are saved because we have faith in god the savior. Not because we trust god to take care of our every need.

i did not lose my salvation, I lost my purpose and desire and found my own hell on this earth, which led me back to god. Because I then realized as the prodigal how broke I really was.
You never turned against God, so what I said does not apply to you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You never turned against God, so what I said does not apply to you.
Lol

i walked away from god

i Had sexual relations with multiple woman, even though I was still technically married

i drank heavily

i stopped giving the gospel or even living like I was my fathers son, no one could tell I was a believer.

by definition, that is turning from god

i did not STOP believing, because I could not, because I still had the seal of the spirit, who continued to convict and chasten me, which is why I could not stay away.

as John said, whoever walks away and becomes anti christ was never of us, if they were, they never would have left.