Not By Works

[NayborBear]

Jude quoted " the assumption of Moses" in his letter. ( about Michael and satan arguing over Moses after he died).

should that book be in Scripture?

and. as always, gentiles were and are not under the Law.

The "gist" I get from just reading the myriad of (so called) introductory "critques and criticisms" by I dunno how many "higher critics and/or scholars" (still going through 'em. Haven't even got to "the Assumption" as yet), is that the author, much like Christendom in general, is more of a "Pharisaic Quietist" mindset. Willing rather to just "believe and wait" for "Divine Intervention" til death, or until "Divine Intervention." Whichever comes first!

I myself, fully believing that "God is in control", do not ascribe myself to that particular "doctrine", or mindset. (been there! done that!) Believing, rather that, if God is indeed "in control?" That we are living in this world/community/culture, etc. that we, through lack of (how can I say) pro-activity, or reaping, pretty much of what's been sown, over 2,000+ years! Which perpetuates just by the "nature of man", the "apostasy" that not only has grown quite dramatically in the world itself, but, has "permeated to the core" the entire of Christendom. Hence:
Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

"The law", especially Christ's first commandment, is of perpetual obligation. Its fulfilment is the preparation for the divine advent, in self-sacrifice.

So, it has become of a fairly "routine" behavior, of "natural men" of the "Christianic Quietists"(lemming) mindset, to engage "without fear of retribution" in the mocking and scoffing of those so engaged in a "perpetual obligation" of Christ's first commandment. IOW? God is a consuming fire!

Guess, I have always been like that! Even before I can remember! This last statement, in hindsight over the course of my 67 years.
The only "regret" I truly have, is that I didn't "answer His call"("are ya ready yet?") sooner! As opposed to the 3 or 4 times over 10-15 years, when I coulda/shoulda, but didn't!

 

[Nehemiah6]

but why should hosea do it because israel did?

God commanded Hosea to do it. That was reason enough. Israel would see Hosea and hopefully repent.

 

[Discern]

i dont understand this ever. why does God tell Hosea to do it? its wrong to take a harlot wife. thats what God told israel to not do why does God go against His own word? even rabbis in commentaries dont understand this.

It was an object lesson. God told the prophets to do many things that were highly unusual.

 

[Discern]

We were definitely 'made' partakers of Christ when we first had confidence in Christ. The Second Perfect tense of the verb 'made' tells us the partaking happened in the past and has continuing results, and does not need to be repeated. And the Indicative mood of the verb 'made' tells us it definitely, really did happen.

And this condition of having definitely being made partakers of Christ in the past, which does not need to be repeated, will continue IF we 'hold' fast the confidence that we held in the beginning all the way to the end. The verb "hold" is in the Aorist tense and tells us the holding of confidence is a completed action, and the Subjunctive mood of the verb 'hold' tells us this completed action of holding of confidence may or may not continue.

So, what is sure is the fact that we have been made partakers of Christ through our confidence in Christ. What's not so sure is the continuation of the completed action of our holding of the confidence we did at that time. Continuing in the sure state of having been made a partaker of Christ is conditional on you not undoing the completed action of having confidence in Christ.


Note this about the Aorist tense:

"the concept of the (Aorist) verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/heb/3/1/t_conc_1136014

And...

"the aorist simply states the fact that an action has happened. It gives no information on how long it took, or whether the results are still in effect."
https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained/

I've already stated that the verb that you are talking about is in the subjunctive. Conditional on whether or not one has been made partaker of Christ, which is what the protasis states as the condition.

 

[Chris1975]

Another scripture which many here would see as heresy.

Titus 1
16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being [d]abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

 

[Chris1975]

And another...

Titus 3
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works.

 

[Melach]

It was an object lesson. God told the prophets to do many things that were highly unusual.

but why i dont get it. i bet most israelites thought they were crazy. i know thats what i would say if a christian did something similar to that today.

but then again i think abraham and most others would also be locked up in a mental institution in today's world lolz

we are just a different peopel today so its weird looking back at it. i dont think the abraham situation was that odd because it was a picture of Jesus and what He would do in the future

 

[Chris1975]

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

>The "BUT WHEN" solution deals with the prior behavioural traits.

 

[Chris1975]

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

>The "BUT WHEN" solution deals with the prior behavioural traits.

Romans 8v1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

>There is a condition attached to the "no condemnation"

 

[Chris1975]

but why i dont get it. i bet most israelites thought they were crazy. i know thats what i would say if a christian did something similar to that today.

but then again i think abraham and most others would also be locked up in a mental institution in today's world lolz

we are just a different peopel today so its weird looking back at it. i dont think the abraham situation was that odd because it was a picture of Jesus and what He would do in the future

You are shocked that Hosea takes a prostiture as a wife. People would look down on him/or look strangely on him that such a man of God would do this. She is pretty much cheating on him day by day.

The surrounding nations would ALSO be just as shocked to see God take his bride Israel, a nation who cheats on him day by day.

This is (one of) the points God is making.....Why would God put up with such harlotry by his people....

 

[Chris1975]

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

>written to the church, not unbelievers.

 

[EleventhHour]

I've already stated that the verb that you are talking about is in the subjunctive. Conditional on whether or not one has been made partaker of Christ, which is what the protasis states as the condition.

Subjunctive mood also expresses "proposal, hope, preference...it is still used in French and Italian....two languages I know.

Again context.

 

[EleventhHour]

I've already stated that the verb that you are talking about is in the subjunctive. Conditional on whether or not one has been made partaker of Christ, which is what the protasis states as the condition.

Yes well, that does work for those pushing loss of salvation...a concept not even present in the New Testament.

 

[Discern]

Subjunctive mood also expresses "proposal, hope, preference...it is still used in French and Italian....two languages I know.

Again context.

Yes, and the context is a conditional sentence.

Those who have been made partakers of Christ do what?

 

[Discern]

Yes well, that does work for those pushing loss of salvation...a concept not even present in the New Testament.

They (people who push loss of salvation) don't believe what I just said.

 

[Discern]

Subjunctive mood also expresses "proposal, hope, preference...it is still used in French and Italian....two languages I know.

Again context.

Hebrews 3:14 is a third class conditional sentence.

 

[VCO]

NKJV says it slightly differently: 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

But the bottom line is Hebrews 3v12-14 says it as clear as daylight. Anybody twisting this does so at their own peril.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Do you know that WE BELIEVE YOU ARE THE ONE along with your Compadres Judges1318, and RebuildJesussChurch,
And a couple others on my IGNORE LIST, are the only ones currently, twisting the Scriptures for your own purposes. The rest of us are VERY GROUNDED in our OSAS BELIEFS and FAITH. It is commical and sadly boring how you twist scriptures, JUST LIKE SO MANY IN THE PAST, quoting and requoting the SAME OLD Twisted SCRIPTURES; while IGNORING the absolute TRUTH, the Scriptures that SUPPORT OSAS.

I cannot understand why you would want to be on this SITE, when it is dominated by Firmly Grounded OSAS BELIEVERS.
AND nothing you can say can even budge us from TRUTH of OSAS as defined in the Holy Scriptures, you are wasting your time.
Could it be you are ADDICTED TO THE ARGUING ? ? ?

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—
that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at your Posts, and how many of these SINS dominate your attitudes in them.

Now I was not going to suggest this, but the TIME HAS COME.

So there are sites out there where MOST Believe YOU CAN LOSE Your SALVATION. I would suggest you try to find one of them.

I have been to one, and NO, it would not be pleasing to GOD to help you find one. On a OSAS? Forum, the original Poster, was ANTI-OSAS, and MOST Members Were also ANTI-OSAS, and I got Called everything in the Bible including a Heretic, when I tried to CORRECT what I know are OSAS BELIEFS. Most just want to Believe what they have been taught about our Beliefs, with is a lie.

If you what a REAL FIGHT where anything goes, there is a site, that is where there are NO MONITORS, AND THEY LET Atheists Join the Christian Forum. AND THERE I GOT CALLED EVERY NAME NOT IN THE BIBLE. NO, I will not help you find those sites.

 

[Chris1975]

Do you know that WE BELIEVE YOU ARE THE ONE along with your Compadres Judges1318, and RebuildJesussChurch,
And a couple others on my IGNORE LIST, are the only ones currently, twisting the Scriptures for your own purposes. The rest of us are VERY GROUNDED in our OSAS BELIEFS and FAITH. It is commical and sadly boring how you twist scriptures, JUST LIKE SO MANY IN THE PAST, quoting and requoting the SAME OLD Twisted SCRIPTURES; while IGNORING the absolute TRUTH, the Scriptures that SUPPORT OSAS.

I cannot understand why you would want to be on this SITE, when it is dominated by Firmly Grounded OSAS BELIEVERS.
AND nothing you can say can even budge us from TRUTH of OSAS as defined in the Holy Scriptures, you are wasting your time.
Could it be you are ADDICTED TO THE ARGUING ? ? ?

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—
that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at your Posts, and how many of these SINS dominate your attitudes in them.

Now I was not going to suggest this, but the TIME HAS COME.

So there are sites out there where MOST Believe YOU CAN LOSE Your SALVATION. I would suggest you try to find one of them.

I have been to one, and NO, it would not be pleasing to GOD to help you find one. On a OSAS? Forum, the original Poster, was ANTI-OSAS, and MOST Members Were also ANTI-OSAS, and I got Called everything in the Bible including a Heretic, when I tried to CORRECT what I know are OSAS BELIEFS. Most just want to Believe what they have been taught about our Beliefs, with is a lie.

If you what a REAL FIGHT where anything goes, there is a site, that is where there are NO MONITORS, AND THEY LET Atheists Join the Christian Forum. AND THERE I GOT CALLED EVERY NAME NOT IN THE BIBLE. NO, I will not help you find those sites.

Relax and chill. You are not reading me correctly at all. No need to get your nose out of joint.

 

[Chris1975]

Do you know that WE BELIEVE YOU ARE THE ONE along with your Compadres Judges1318, and RebuildJesussChurch,
And a couple others on my IGNORE LIST, are the only ones currently, twisting the Scriptures for your own purposes. The rest of us are VERY GROUNDED in our OSAS BELIEFS and FAITH. It is commical and sadly boring how you twist scriptures, JUST LIKE SO MANY IN THE PAST, quoting and requoting the SAME OLD Twisted SCRIPTURES; while IGNORING the absolute TRUTH, the Scriptures that SUPPORT OSAS.

I cannot understand why you would want to be on this SITE, when it is dominated by Firmly Grounded OSAS BELIEVERS.
AND nothing you can say can even budge us from TRUTH of OSAS as defined in the Holy Scriptures, you are wasting your time.
Could it be you are ADDICTED TO THE ARGUING ? ? ?

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—
that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at your Posts, and how many of these SINS dominate your attitudes in them.

Now I was not going to suggest this, but the TIME HAS COME.

So there are sites out there where MOST Believe YOU CAN LOSE Your SALVATION. I would suggest you try to find one of them.

I have been to one, and NO, it would not be pleasing to GOD to help you find one. On a OSAS? Forum, the original Poster, was ANTI-OSAS, and MOST Members Were also ANTI-OSAS, and I got Called everything in the Bible including a Heretic, when I tried to CORRECT what I know are OSAS BELIEFS. Most just want to Believe what they have been taught about our Beliefs, with is a lie.

If you what a REAL FIGHT where anything goes, there is a site, that is where there are NO MONITORS, AND THEY LET Atheists Join the Christian Forum. AND THERE I GOT CALLED EVERY NAME NOT IN THE BIBLE. NO, I will not help you find those sites.

Just put me on ignore. It will go better for you, then you won't get so worked up about me posting scriptures.

 

[VCO]

And another...

Titus 3
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works.

GOOD WORKS are NOT PART OF SALVATION. They only SPAWN out of AGAPE LOVE, and ANY works done for the WRONG MOTIVE, are just WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE, and will be BURNED UP when our Works are TESTED. AND some of them are FITHTHY RAGS, totally worthless.


So are you positive that you have GOD GIVEN AGAPE LOVE IN YOU ? ? ?