Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The person who thinks it will is deceived--deceived by once saved always saved teachers and their doctrines that say your faith 'alone' will save you. That's the kind of faith demons have. Faith that is 'alone' is not the faith that justifies apart from works.
You are a one string banjo -- "attack OSAS." Demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

We are saved by the kind of faith that TRUSTS IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION (Ephesians 2:8,9) and this kind of faith results in producing works (though all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful). We are not saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works at all. (James 2:14)
 
Nov 24, 2019
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So @RebuildJesussChurch you are willing to agree with someone who denies the divinity of Jesus for the sake of your works Gospel or do you too deny this?
I don't have a "works Gospel" but the Gospel of the Kingdom certainly produces righteousness in action. Jesus Christ my Lord is God: Emmanuel, the Prince of Peace.

I agree with many of the things Balaam said. Gandi too. Even Donald Trump, though he is personally ungodly.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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can someone answer this https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4122096

The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...

"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)

Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:

"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:

You did not know this, did you?
im not ashamed to say i really didnt know that verse because i dont read the old testament that much to be honest.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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I don't have a "works Gospel" but the Gospel of the Kingdom certainly produces righteousness in action. Jesus Christ my Lord is God: Emmanuel, the Prince of Peace.

I agree with many of the things Balaam said. Gandi too. Even Donald Trump, though he is personally ungodly.
Everything @iymus speaks about is from a wrong premise and his conclusions are wrong as well.... make sense you are in agreement then.... while you try to justify by stating you only agree with his conclusions you actually support his premise as well.

How does one agree with someone who denies the divinity of Christ not on a different topic like politics but a connected doctrine... sad.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Everything @iymus speaks about is from a wrong premise and his conclusions are wrong as well.... make sense you are in agreement then.... while you try to justify by stating you only agree with his conclusions you actually support his premise as well.

How does one agree with someone who denies the divinity of Christ not on a different topic like politics but a connected doctrine... sad.
I agree with the premise of Scripture.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
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This is a lie right here.
It is only through faith apart from works that one is justified by the grace of God.

The fact that you rely and teach works means you do not need a Saviour... just a good role model so then this brings me to the all important question....



First and foremost the will of the Father encompasses his works. However if one is justified without the works of the Father then I find that very interesting.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

The Father is in his only begotten son and us thru our willingness to do his will and works.

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Is Jesus fully God and fully human?
The Son is the firstborn and beginning of Creation of God and his representation that declared him since God is the Father of all Spirits and Originator of life. Our Lord is the only begotten Son of The Lord our God The Father and did the works of the Father by becoming the Son of Man.

The following are verses with emphasis on magnifying the point.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

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Is Jesus fully God and fully human?[/QUOTE]

Why would you ask me to validate or invalidate your interpretations? I did a Keyword search and do not even see such verbiage. Here is what I got? "7 matches in new testament"

Act_2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Rom_4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Rom_14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

2Ti_3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2Ti_4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Rev_14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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More working.... trying to imitate Christ.

You can deny yourself till the cows come home but it will not save you.
"I" am crucified with Him, mocker. It's no longer about what I want, think or feel but the life I now live in the body I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Nice try Sherlock. FAITH is COMPLETE in the BEGINNING and FAITH IS NOT OF YOURSELVES, Eph. 2:8-9. All HE is saying is a Living Faith will Mature, as you feed on the WORD.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


WHY DO YOU WANT TO ROB JESUS CHRIST OF THE GLORY THAT SOLELY BELONGS TO HIM?

Here is a quote that
Tinkerbell725 posted.


All I posted was pure scripture. Emphasising areas often overlooked. So what is the "nice try Sherlock" all about?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Nice try Sherlock. FAITH is COMPLETE in the BEGINNING and FAITH IS NOT OF YOURSELVES, Eph. 2:8-9. All HE is saying is a Living Faith will Mature, as you feed on the WORD.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


WHY DO YOU WANT TO ROB JESUS CHRIST OF THE GLORY THAT SOLELY BELONGS TO HIM?

Here is a quote that
Tinkerbell725 posted.


OK VCO, why not do a line by line breakdown of 2 Peter 1 v5-11. Make sure you don't overlook of skip large swathes of these scriptures. Give me the VCO understanding of this.

Here it is again. Please, line by line, not overlooking words.....

2 Peter 1 v5-11

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [d]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [e]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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If someone looses their faith, what then?
The ones who have superficial faith you mean ?

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Isaiah 42:3
He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick; he will faithfully bring justice.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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can someone answer this https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4122096


im not ashamed to say i really didnt know that verse because i dont read the old testament that much to be honest.
Good question. A covenant is a contract between two parties. You can rely on the one party ALWAYS fulfilling their promise (God in this case). However it is still a contact. There are many IF's (conditions in the contract). If you (as one of the parties willfully live in breach of the contract) then the contract can be voided altogether.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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can someone answer this https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4122096


im not ashamed to say i really didnt know that verse because i dont read the old testament that much to be honest.
Sincerely, you should read the old testament for there are a lot of truths which only manifest if you understand God's heart. Getting to know the God of the bible is incomplete without understanding Him in the OT. God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Sincerely, you should read the old testament for there are a lot of truths which only manifest if you understand God's heart. Getting to know the God of the bible is incomplete without understanding Him in the OT. God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore.
yes but i dont read o.t. as much because many of it is not for today like all the rituals and ceremonies and circumcisions and things related to the temple. they are all just history and no signifance to me. so instead of figuring does this apply to me i just read more so the new testament because its for me today.

i didnt say i dont read the o.t. ever i just said that much.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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...unless you forsake Him.

The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...

"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)

Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:

"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:

You did not know this, did you?
Once saved always saved teachers tend to leave that part out.


And in case you are high minded and think you will never forsake the Lord because you are saved, consider Paul's warning to those who stand by faith in this New Covenant:

"they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:20-21

He's talking to people who stand by faith.
He says don't be arrogant, but fear.
Not my words.
Paul's words.
In holy fear, keep believing so you don't have to worry about being cast away and forsaken by the Lord.
Your once saved always saved teachers will hide or twist these truths to suit themselves and the itching ears of those who listen to them.

But there it is right in our Bibles.
Keep believing or be forsaken.
Heres another profound insight @Judges1318. Think about how relevant this piece is in relation to the debating here on these forums....

Deuteronomy 29
18 so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I [c]follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober.
20 “The Lord would not spare him; for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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So Eleventh Hour.....is this passage I post below contained in the scriptures or not?

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
@EleventhHour - Reminder Nr 4