Not By Works
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Such people sure make believing (especially continuing to believe) sound like a lot of hard work. 
If it did there would be no exhortations to continue to believe, and there would be no letters to the Galatians, Corinthians, and the Hebrew church in our Bibles.
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It is NOT DOUBT in GOD's Mind, HE IS ALL KNOWING, and DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING.
Isaiah 46:10 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
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Sighs. The narrow-mindedness. The carnality.
Doing the will of God encompasses doing the works of God which is being obedient or living the way he wants you to live, etc.
someones way of life thru their works has more weight than someone with faithless works. Abrahams way of life was counted towards his belief which made him righteous.
faithless works are simply a confession or run of the tongue; especially in our day and age. Faithless works is great or be considered essential for motivation however that motivation should lead to some kind of works or then what is the point?
Sighs. The narrow-mindedness. The carnality.
Doing the will of God encompasses doing the works of God which is being obedient or living the way he wants you to live, etc.
someones way of life thru their works has more weight than someone with faithless works. Abrahams way of life was counted towards his belief which made him righteous.
faithless works are simply a confession or run of the tongue; especially in our day and age. Faithless works is great or be considered essential for motivation however that motivation should lead to some kind of works or then what is the point?
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...unless you forsake Him.
The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...
"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)
Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:
"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:
You did not know this, did you?
Once saved always saved teachers tend to leave that part out.
And in case you are high minded and think you will never forsake the Lord because you are saved, consider Paul's warning to those who stand by faith in this New Covenant:
"they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:20-21
He's talking to people who stand by faith.
He says don't be arrogant, but fear.
Not my words.
Paul's words.
In holy fear, keep believing so you don't have to worry about being cast away and forsaken by the Lord.
Your once saved always saved teachers will hide or twist these truths to suit themselves and the itching ears of those who listen to them.
But there it is right in our Bibles.
Keep believing or be forsaken.
The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...
"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)
Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:
"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:
You did not know this, did you?
Once saved always saved teachers tend to leave that part out.
And in case you are high minded and think you will never forsake the Lord because you are saved, consider Paul's warning to those who stand by faith in this New Covenant:
"they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:20-21
He's talking to people who stand by faith.
He says don't be arrogant, but fear.
Not my words.
Paul's words.
In holy fear, keep believing so you don't have to worry about being cast away and forsaken by the Lord.
Your once saved always saved teachers will hide or twist these truths to suit themselves and the itching ears of those who listen to them.
But there it is right in our Bibles.
Keep believing or be forsaken.
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This is a lie right here.
It is only through faith apart from works that one is justified by the grace of God.
The fact that you rely and teach works means you do not need a Saviour... just a good role model so then this brings me to the all important question....
Is Jesus fully God and fully human?
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Example:
"15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" - James 2:15-16
"17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth." - 1 John 3:17-18
See it, people? Loving in action, and not just in tongue is how you know that you are saved and have the love of God in you and that you are not just deceived. A point made even more clear here in the next chapter:
"17This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus." - 1 John 4:17
Faith without obedience is the faith that can NOT save you:
"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" - James 2:14
That answer is 'no', of course. Works-less faith can not save you. The person who thinks it will is deceived--deceived by once saved always saved teachers and their doctrines that say your faith 'alone' will save you. That's the kind of faith demons have. Faith that is 'alone' is not the faith that justifies apart from works.
"15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" - James 2:15-16
"17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth." - 1 John 3:17-18
See it, people? Loving in action, and not just in tongue is how you know that you are saved and have the love of God in you and that you are not just deceived. A point made even more clear here in the next chapter:
"17This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus." - 1 John 4:17
Faith without obedience is the faith that can NOT save you:
"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" - James 2:14
That answer is 'no', of course. Works-less faith can not save you. The person who thinks it will is deceived--deceived by once saved always saved teachers and their doctrines that say your faith 'alone' will save you. That's the kind of faith demons have. Faith that is 'alone' is not the faith that justifies apart from works.
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The irony.
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND
Doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
You mix it all together and teach salvation by faith PLUS WORKS, just as I suspected from the start.
We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) By Abraham's way of life/conduct/works, he was shown to be righteous (James 2:21) yet Abraham was accounted as righteous through faith and not by works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years BEFORE he was shown to be righteous in Genesis 22.
Those who trust in works for salvation (AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE) may be "religious, but are not right with God," and have just that -- "faithless works," as we see with these many people in Matthew 7:22-23.
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND
Doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
You mix it all together and teach salvation by faith PLUS WORKS, just as I suspected from the start.
We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) By Abraham's way of life/conduct/works, he was shown to be righteous (James 2:21) yet Abraham was accounted as righteous through faith and not by works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years BEFORE he was shown to be righteous in Genesis 22.
Those who trust in works for salvation (AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE) may be "religious, but are not right with God," and have just that -- "faithless works," as we see with these many people in Matthew 7:22-23.
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The irony.
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND
Doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
You mix it all together and teach salvation by faith PLUS WORKS, just as I suspected from the start.
We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) By Abraham's way of life/conduct/works, he was shown to be righteous (James 2:21) yet Abraham was accounted as righteous through faith and not by works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years BEFORE he was shown to be righteous in Genesis 22.
Those who trust in works for salvation (AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE) may be "religious, but are not right with God," and have just that -- "faithless works," as we see with these many people in Matthew 7:22-23.
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND
Doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
You mix it all together and teach salvation by faith PLUS WORKS, just as I suspected from the start.
We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) By Abraham's way of life/conduct/works, he was shown to be righteous (James 2:21) yet Abraham was accounted as righteous through faith and not by works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years BEFORE he was shown to be righteous in Genesis 22.
Those who trust in works for salvation (AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE) may be "religious, but are not right with God," and have just that -- "faithless works," as we see with these many people in Matthew 7:22-23.
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Nice try Sherlock. FAITH is COMPLETE in the BEGINNING and FAITH IS NOT OF YOURSELVES, Eph. 2:8-9. All HE is saying is a Living Faith will Mature, as you feed on the WORD.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
WHY DO YOU WANT TO ROB JESUS CHRIST OF THE GLORY THAT SOLELY BELONGS TO HIM?
Here is a quote that
Tinkerbell725 posted.
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I don't read every post. why would i go thru 6000 pages of intellectual rubbing oneself.
Love is striving to fulfill a role. Someone who loves his wife strives to be a good husband by fulffilling the role of a husband. Someone who loves being a firefighter strives to show up at work. If his works show that he is constantly late and leaves early then his works show that either he does not love being a firefighter or has a greater love taking away his time.
Even under the fullness of Grace those who sincerely love and appreciate will be loved in return.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Works is a universal concept. One cannot use interpreations of Paul or any other books to say otherwise.
A Salvation with dead works faith seem lukewarm unless an infant or weak in the gospel. Growth and Maturity are also universal concepts which should be striving forth perfection. Yet it seems many want to stagnate on the milk or their interpretations of Paul to even go as far as the conform or bring the whole gospel into the submission of those interpretations.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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Lastly If their is no work then their will also be no accountability or standards so don't complain about the monster you have been complicit in creating. "not towards anyone specifically"
oh and one does not need to know greek philosophy to to understand universal concepts such as love just saying.
Love is striving to fulfill a role. Someone who loves his wife strives to be a good husband by fulffilling the role of a husband. Someone who loves being a firefighter strives to show up at work. If his works show that he is constantly late and leaves early then his works show that either he does not love being a firefighter or has a greater love taking away his time.
Even under the fullness of Grace those who sincerely love and appreciate will be loved in return.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Works is a universal concept. One cannot use interpreations of Paul or any other books to say otherwise.
A Salvation with dead works faith seem lukewarm unless an infant or weak in the gospel. Growth and Maturity are also universal concepts which should be striving forth perfection. Yet it seems many want to stagnate on the milk or their interpretations of Paul to even go as far as the conform or bring the whole gospel into the submission of those interpretations.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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Lastly If their is no work then their will also be no accountability or standards so don't complain about the monster you have been complicit in creating. "not towards anyone specifically"
oh and one does not need to know greek philosophy to to understand universal concepts such as love just saying.
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There are many places you will find typical "first born" notion about Jesus. As we all have talked and witnessed to JW's over the years you know that this is very much their language... along with a few other cults.
#17
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...ross-and-before-the-cross.189439/post-4120767
#23
https://christianchat.com/threads/i...ns-and-jehovahs-witnesses.189465/post-4121966