Not By Works

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EleventhHour

Guest
It is.

Do you have a point... are you accusing me of sin because I found something you said somewhat comical... I am somewhat amused at your persistence in wrong doctrine...... that you think you have gained profound insight into scripture on something that does not exist in scripture.

As I have already told you.. no word, no verse, no chapter, no book of scripture teaches that the gift of salvation once given can be lost, forsaken, abandoned, revoked or returned

But really you are right........ it is far, far more tragic and insulting to God and so I retract my laughing... it is absolutely not funny or comical ...completely tragic as we like to say around here.

I need to continually remind myself exactly what you teach. :(
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,132
5,520
113
So @RebuildJesussChurch you are willing to agree with someone who denies the divinity of Jesus for the sake of your works Gospel or do you too deny this?
I think it is more likely that those who think they can lose their salvation may be saved, then the deniers of Christ's Divinity.
I was once like the former, but was confused and had a lot of help from the enemy in believing that you could lose your salvation.


VERY likely the latter are lost. Declaring Jesus Christ as Lord is ESSENTIAL to the Gospel unto Salvation.

I did a thread a while back about what I believe are the essentials of being a born again child of God:


https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/is-there-anybody-out-there.182065/
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
Everything @iymus speaks about is from a wrong premise and his conclusions are wrong as well.... make sense you are in agreement then.... while you try to justify by stating you only agree with his conclusions you actually support his premise as well.

How does one agree with someone who denies the divinity of Christ not on a different topic like politics but a connected doctrine... sad.
yet wonder if this person can prove her claims.?
yet wonder if this person can prove that I do not believe in Christ as the scripture hath said.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

But to each his own. :)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,343
2,123
113
yet wonder if this person can prove her claims.?
yet wonder if this person can prove that I do not believe in Christ as the scripture hath said.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

But to each his own. :)

Is Jesus God?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,661
113
Listen up Chris... the only option other than Grace is Law

You teach Grace is not sufficient and the work of Christ is limited
It’s heartbreaking to see it when it’s written that way. The fact that some people feel the work of Christ is limited is truly heartbreaking indeed.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,661
113
If you allow yourself to slip into apostasy (loss of faith) through false doctrines or continued and unrepentant willful disobedience, then you become apostate.
Perhaps everyone should immediately commit suicide upon believing in Jesus.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
It's not a rhetorical question. I ask you again, since you have accused me - is this contained in scripture? Who is doing the "letting" and "presenting"?
Not about maintaining salvation if that is what you are getting at.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,661
113
So Eleventh Hour.....is this passage I post below contained in the scriptures or not?

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
It’s a call to living a virtuous life but says nothing about losing salvation.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
I asked questions with answer to possibly lead you to that conclusion. The truth offends and can be hard to believe in this word.

Who did he say he is?

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Who did John bare record / testified that he is?

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Who did Peter say he is?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

According to the law who is he?

Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Who are mentioned of overcoming the world?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

----------------------------------

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

------------------

Do we need to cry for you to believe this

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

----------------------------------------------------

Can you show verses that those who overcommeth the world believe that Jesus is God?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

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Can you show the requirement to where confessing that Jesus is God is necessary for salvation or to get into the kingdom of Heaven?
 
Sep 6, 2014
5,873
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biblehub.com
...unless you forsake Him.

The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...

"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)

Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:

"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:

You did not know this, did you?
Once saved always saved teachers tend to leave that part out.


And in case you are high minded and think you will never forsake the Lord because you are saved, consider Paul's warning to those who stand by faith in this New Covenant:

"they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:20-21

He's talking to people who stand by faith.
He says don't be arrogant, but fear.
Not my words.
Paul's words.
In holy fear, keep believing so you don't have to worry about being cast away and forsaken by the Lord.
Your once saved always saved teachers will hide or twist these truths to suit themselves and the itching ears of those who listen to them.

But there it is right in our Bibles.
Keep believing or be forsaken.
Hebrews was written a few millenniums after Deuteronomy was written.
There would be no reason for Hebrews 13:5 to state "“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

The Scriptures can't be broken... (John 10:35)

Your attempt to twist the Scriptures fails yet again.

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Seems to me, that you have a grudge against God for rejecting you.... O unregenerate sinner.

Revelation 22:15
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
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The ones who have superficial faith you mean ?

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Isaiah 42:3
He will not break a bruised reed, and he will not put out a smoldering wick; he will faithfully bring justice.
You either believe or you do not, you are either saved or you are not. There is no such thing as being half saved.

Unfortunately there are those who fervently believe, in a god of their imagination taught to them by false teachers, either ancient, or modern. No matter how strong their faith, in their chosen religion, whatever its name, they all call themselves Christians, they will never see the kingdom of heaven.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
Repent for what? Repent for wanting to be with Jesus immediately upon believing in Him?
Repenting seems like works that may not be a requirement because salvation is a gift of God. I don't think so but my opinion definitely does not matter.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
You either believe or you do not, you are either saved or you are not. There is no such thing as being half saved.

Unfortunately there are those who fervently believe, in a god of their imagination taught to them by false teachers, either ancient, or modern. No matter how strong their faith, in their chosen religion, whatever its name, they all call themselves Christians, they will never see the kingdom of heaven.
The Mystery of Lawlessness at work.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,343
2,123
113
I asked questions with answer to possibly lead you to that conclusion. The truth offends and can be hard to believe in this word.

Who did he say he is?

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Who did John bare record / testified that he is?

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Who did Peter say he is?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

According to the law who is he?

Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Who are mentioned of overcoming the world?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

----------------------------------

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

------------------

Do we need to cry for you to believe this

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

----------------------------------------------------

Can you show verses that those who overcommeth the world believe that Jesus is God?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

----------------------------------------------------------

Can you show the requirement to where confessing that Jesus is God is necessary for salvation or to get into the kingdom of Heaven?
I've addressed you many times, you have never once replied with a straight answer.....


Is Jesus God?

Yes or no?


also

"Can you show the requirement to where confessing that Jesus is God is necessary for salvation or to get into the kingdom of Heaven?"

I never said it was so why would you change the subject?