Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hebrews recognises the sacrificial system worked, but as a shadow or representative of Christs sacrifice for sins.
Eternal life was in the relationship with the Father by faith, but was often distant, behind the curtain of the Holy of Hollies.
Eternal life was now clear and fully revealed through Jesus and the indwelling Holy Spirit, the cornerstone had arrived, the shadow was gone.
Israel was always the beginning of drawing all men to the Father, fulfilled by Jesus at the end.
The pharisees were the legalised fulfilment of obedience and highlighting its problems and hypocrisy.
Heb 10:13-14
Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Eternal life was in the relationship with the Father by faith, but was often distant, behind the curtain of the Holy of Hollies.
Eternal life was now clear and fully revealed through Jesus and the indwelling Holy Spirit, the cornerstone had arrived, the shadow was gone.
Israel was always the beginning of drawing all men to the Father, fulfilled by Jesus at the end.
The pharisees were the legalised fulfilment of obedience and highlighting its problems and hypocrisy.
Heb 10:13-14
Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
E
It not a work.
its the work of God
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
zero zip nada works save,
the net result of that faith and being born again, will result is some form of works. If one flames to have faith (claimed to be saved) yet has zero zip nada works, his faith was dead. Did that faith save him?
no.
its the work of God
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
zero zip nada works save,
the net result of that faith and being born again, will result is some form of works. If one flames to have faith (claimed to be saved) yet has zero zip nada works, his faith was dead. Did that faith save him?
no.
Matt 3:3
A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.'
John 1:33
'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptise with the Holy Spirit'
Part of walking with Jesus is baptism with water for the remission of sins, with the filling of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance is key, John was declaring the Kingdom was coming, get ready, sort your lives out, make them
straight. Jesus and the cross, the tearing of the curtain, the coming of the Holy Spirit into peoples lives was
the Kingdom come to earth.
Being righteous is not enough, it is not salvation, just the opportunity to know Gods heart and to begin
a relationship with Him. The relationship is salvation, eternal life, life that is forever, that goes beyond
anything else we can experience.
John was unique.
Luke 1:15
he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
Making our paths straight is the only was we can begin this walk, repentance, cleansing.
Miss this and you miss the Kingdom, eternally.
A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.'
John 1:33
'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptise with the Holy Spirit'
Part of walking with Jesus is baptism with water for the remission of sins, with the filling of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance is key, John was declaring the Kingdom was coming, get ready, sort your lives out, make them
straight. Jesus and the cross, the tearing of the curtain, the coming of the Holy Spirit into peoples lives was
the Kingdom come to earth.
Being righteous is not enough, it is not salvation, just the opportunity to know Gods heart and to begin
a relationship with Him. The relationship is salvation, eternal life, life that is forever, that goes beyond
anything else we can experience.
John was unique.
Luke 1:15
he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
Making our paths straight is the only was we can begin this walk, repentance, cleansing.
Miss this and you miss the Kingdom, eternally.
E
yeah he says they can not live this way, because they are born of God. That is one of the fruits of faith and salvation (works james speaks of)
Amen
. again, amen, we can not live up to Gods standard anyway (perfection)
Amen
. I disagree, lost men can do no works, even the works they do are in sin, I think our definitions of works are not on par with each other, works produce fruit. A non believer is unable to produce fruit
. amen again, that’s why james said if a man has zero zip nada works his faith is dead. Can that faith save? NO
Amen, but this is pre salvation
wrong, it indicates they either had few works which really produced little fruit.or they remained babes in christ, and although they did the work of no longer living in sin, they probably came to church and were quiet people who really did nothing, that’s if they came at all.
if they had no work, they continued to live in sin, their faith was dead and they were never saved.
again, saying a person can be saved with no works of faith is feeding the workers. I will not bless that thinking
Amen
. again, amen, we can not live up to Gods standard anyway (perfection)
Amen
. I disagree, lost men can do no works, even the works they do are in sin, I think our definitions of works are not on par with each other, works produce fruit. A non believer is unable to produce fruit
. amen again, that’s why james said if a man has zero zip nada works his faith is dead. Can that faith save? NO
Amen, but this is pre salvation
wrong, it indicates they either had few works which really produced little fruit.or they remained babes in christ, and although they did the work of no longer living in sin, they probably came to church and were quiet people who really did nothing, that’s if they came at all.
if they had no work, they continued to live in sin, their faith was dead and they were never saved.
again, saying a person can be saved with no works of faith is feeding the workers. I will not bless that thinking
E
Many non Jews have the same faith
most Jews (at least religious jews] are more of the pharisee type, Paul wrote of them in his epistles. Fighting salvation by works. In fact, I know of no licentious jew. And I have known many many lifetime.
yet I can probably name quite a few people who claim to be christian, but they continue to live as the world does.and I would not more think they are christian than the legalistic jew or christian trying to be saved by works,
most Jews (at least religious jews] are more of the pharisee type, Paul wrote of them in his epistles. Fighting salvation by works. In fact, I know of no licentious jew. And I have known many many lifetime.
yet I can probably name quite a few people who claim to be christian, but they continue to live as the world does.and I would not more think they are christian than the legalistic jew or christian trying to be saved by works,
E
John said can’t
i will go with John on this one
once again miso, we are not talking about prodigal children or our person sin,we are talking about a lifestyle of unrighteousness, those who live in continual self centered self focused. I have a hole in my heart and I need to fill it, so I will fill it my way instead of letting God full it for me
to those saved, God already filled that whole, so they no longer need that hoe filled. Thus no longer need to sin, Ie, they do not live in sin.
a baby will have more sin than a mature believer,even so, that baby will not live on sin.they can
they have been born of God
1. the hole in their heart of filled to excess (rivers of living water)
2. They are new creatures, sin is poison to them, like righteousness is poison to a non believer
3. they chastened by God
these are just three reasons why they cant
i will go with John on this one
once again miso, we are not talking about prodigal children or our person sin,we are talking about a lifestyle of unrighteousness, those who live in continual self centered self focused. I have a hole in my heart and I need to fill it, so I will fill it my way instead of letting God full it for me
to those saved, God already filled that whole, so they no longer need that hoe filled. Thus no longer need to sin, Ie, they do not live in sin.
a baby will have more sin than a mature believer,even so, that baby will not live on sin.they can
they have been born of God
1. the hole in their heart of filled to excess (rivers of living water)
2. They are new creatures, sin is poison to them, like righteousness is poison to a non believer
3. they chastened by God
these are just three reasons why they cant
-
1
- Show all
E
I love you as a brother too
the root cause of their issue was licentiousness
they are not the legalistic jews paul condemned.
theynare what Jude called peiple who turn the grace of God to licentiousness. james is warning these people to test their own faith, is it dead, did it save, or are you still lost.
they claimed to have faith, but had no works
theyndid the opposite of many other Jews.who tried to add works to salvation. They found freedom from law. And took it and went crazy and thought because they made a profession of faith they were saved and they could now live however they want.
the root cause of their issue was licentiousness
they are not the legalistic jews paul condemned.
theynare what Jude called peiple who turn the grace of God to licentiousness. james is warning these people to test their own faith, is it dead, did it save, or are you still lost.
they claimed to have faith, but had no works
theyndid the opposite of many other Jews.who tried to add works to salvation. They found freedom from law. And took it and went crazy and thought because they made a profession of faith they were saved and they could now live however they want.
E
again, as I have said
paul said abraham was saved by faith, but we see, even though abraham had a lot of sin, he also had works.
james is saying if you claim to have this faith, but you have zero zip nada works. (Unlike Abraham) can that type of faith save you?
how can a dead lifeless faith save a person? It can‘t
paul said abraham was saved by faith, but we see, even though abraham had a lot of sin, he also had works.
james is saying if you claim to have this faith, but you have zero zip nada works. (Unlike Abraham) can that type of faith save you?
how can a dead lifeless faith save a person? It can‘t
-
1
- Show all
E
1 Peter 1:8-9
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Rom 2:9-11
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honour and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
For God does not show favouritism.
What is Gods attitude to man?
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:11-12
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
The straight path is our calling because we love Jesus.
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Rom 2:9-11
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honour and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
For God does not show favouritism.
What is Gods attitude to man?
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:11-12
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
The straight path is our calling because we love Jesus.
James is talking about the imperishable seed will always show itself, else it is dead.
James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
Can we choose the fruit of the imperishable seed? No.
James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 3:13
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
James calls these unbelievers to repentance and faith.
James 4:8-10
Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
So this letter is written to those who claim to know Jesus, some of whom do and some clearly do not.
James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
The warning is some are lost sinners, who are in spiritual death and end in judgement.
James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
Can we choose the fruit of the imperishable seed? No.
James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 3:13
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
James calls these unbelievers to repentance and faith.
James 4:8-10
Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
So this letter is written to those who claim to know Jesus, some of whom do and some clearly do not.
James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
The warning is some are lost sinners, who are in spiritual death and end in judgement.
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
lets start with this verse. lets restart the conversation at page 6115. this say that once you believe you have everlasting life, but not only that, you also wont be coming into judgment and have passed from death into life.
if anyone believes but then is coming to judgment and goes back to death how can this verse even be true?
lets start with this verse. lets restart the conversation at page 6115. this say that once you believe you have everlasting life, but not only that, you also wont be coming into judgment and have passed from death into life.
if anyone believes but then is coming to judgment and goes back to death how can this verse even be true?
-
3
- Show all
so how can john 5:24 be true then? they didnt really "not come into judgment" in your view?
just seems like the NOSAS salvation plan really sucks hard. you are always just shaken to the core never knowing you are saved in constant anxiety and fear because its all based on your performance so once you sin you think oh no am i still saved and either you try harder next time or you just fall deeper into sin thinking i lost my salvation anyway.
i will keep my eternal security thanks much. i know from experience what works salvation is, no peace and i see so many christians around me in that same state miserable people.
i wish we would all read the bible the same way. its a big book so you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say really
just seems like the NOSAS salvation plan really sucks hard. you are always just shaken to the core never knowing you are saved in constant anxiety and fear because its all based on your performance so once you sin you think oh no am i still saved and either you try harder next time or you just fall deeper into sin thinking i lost my salvation anyway.
i will keep my eternal security thanks much. i know from experience what works salvation is, no peace and i see so many christians around me in that same state miserable people.
i wish we would all read the bible the same way. its a big book so you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say really
-
4
-
1
- Show all