Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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Is not the cross the atoning sacrifice for sins?

Without the cross nothing could happen in the eternal, but it is door that opens the Kingdom, but is not God himself or the anointing of the Holy Spirit, or the walk on the way, or the works of the believer, or the growth and maturity of Gods people.

Surely you are not suggesting the cross does everything, when clearly we are called to so much, and given so much to achieve, along with warnings about failure to apply these gifts appropriately?

2 Thess 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Matt 10:38-39
anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I wonder if one view can be held so firmly, the words of another mean nothing and are not even read.
If no servant or follower or respondent was ever rejected, then automatic acceptance could be possible.
Then you too mock the cross have no understanding of the law and need repentance
 
Jan 5, 2020
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James is talking about those who claim they had faith but are decieved

He is not talkin about continual works required to keep salvation
I think you are not reading my words rightly.
I said James is talking about those who claimed faith but do not have the imperishable seed or truly being born again.

James is saying if God is in you, it will show in good works, or else it cannot be Jesus. It is simply to answer those who wish to force their theology and lifestyle on to others, without knowing the truth of the Kingdom within.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
HEY! You are looking in a mirror at your own beliefs.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You do see that "fruit" is plural there, doncha?
Isaiah 28
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Hebrews 6
Therefore moving beyond the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto Spiritual maturity; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 
Jan 5, 2020
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Then you too mock the cross have no understanding of the law and need repentance
Again you are not reading what I wrote. I am asking a question about consequences.
The curtain was torn in two, so we could now become temples of the Holy Spirit.
This is salvation, walking in the Kingdom, going from death to life.

It is possible to lose the picture, goes too fuzzy.
You seem to agree unless spiritually this is a reality, one is not saved, Amen.

You cannot work for or earn this reality. Or are you saying something else?
You seem very quick to condemn me and judge me as having no understanding of the law.

Is it possible to go from understanding it all to no understanding in a blink or is this a problem of language?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I think you are not reading my words rightly.
I said James is talking about those who claimed faith but do not have the imperishable seed or truly being born again.

James is saying if God is in you, it will show in good works, or else it cannot be Jesus. It is simply to answer those who wish to force their theology and lifestyle on to others, without knowing the truth of the Kingdom within.
They were born again...otherwise no reason for the letter.
 
Jan 5, 2020
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They were born again...otherwise no reason for the letter.
I agree some were believers, while James is saying some are not and need to get right with God.
James had faith that the unbelievers could be saved

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Here is how ridiculous your theories are:


Ephesians 2:5 (ESV)
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses,
made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved


Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.



I think I know what the problem is. I would guess that You do think of GOD as a created being traveling through time as we know it.

I do not, because HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT. HE IS ETERNAL, and that means HE IS OUTSIDE OF TIME as we know it.

He declares the End from the Beginning, because He is OMNIPRESENT in both SPACE and TIME.

I knows every decision you will make in time, Because He is Omnipresent in Space as well as TIME.

His Foreknowledge is PERFECT, because HE IS Omnipresent in ALL OF TIME.

GOD IS WAY BIGGER THAN YOU HAVE EVER THOUGHT.
Know what? God is even bigger then the box you have put Him in! :unsure:
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I think you are not reading my words rightly.
I said James is talking about those who claimed faith but do not have the imperishable seed or truly being born again.

James is saying if God is in you, it will show in good works, or else it cannot be Jesus. It is simply to answer those who wish to force their theology and lifestyle on to others, without knowing the truth of the Kingdom within.
How many good works did James say was required
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
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Again you are not reading what I wrote. I am asking a question about consequences.
The curtain was torn in two, so we could now become temples of the Holy Spirit.
This is salvation, walking in the Kingdom, going from death to life.

It is possible to lose the picture, goes too fuzzy.
You seem to agree unless spiritually this is a reality, one is not saved, Amen.

You cannot work for or earn this reality. Or are you saying something else?
You seem very quick to condemn me and judge me as having no understanding of the law.

Is it possible to go from understanding it all to no understanding in a blink or is this a problem of language?
Can salvation be lost in your view?
 
Jan 5, 2020
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How many good works did James say was required
James is saying what I would now say, works are a sign of life, not quantity. Get the focus wrong and you end up trying prove something that cannot be earnt, either you dwell in Jesus or you do not.

As Paul said

2 Cor 13:5-6
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.

Some have discovered they assumed they knew Jesus and found they did not, repented, humbled themselves and Christ dwelt in them. This is not our ministry, we can but share our faith, and God provides the fruit. Amen
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Virginia
www.youtube.com
How miraculous and beautiful and powerful to be born of water and the Spirit today!

As it is written, “The wind blows wherever it pleases - you hear the sound of it but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The necessity of the Headship of Jesus Christ made effective through the Holy Spirit. He did indeed come to baptize us with the Holy Spirit, the One by whom the sins of God are being led today. Yes, the Kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness, peace and joy for us IN the Holy Spirit.

Praise the Lord.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I agree some were believers, while James is saying some are not and need to get right with God.
James had faith that the unbelievers could be saved

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
All letters from the mind of the author is instruction to believers.
Having said that... one must note when the author is replying to a question or echoing a belief that is in the congregation that he is trying to set right.
 
Jan 5, 2020
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Can salvation be lost in your view?
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin.

The elect can never lose their salvation, but who are they?
Every other variation exists, so it will appear one way or the other.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
How miraculous and beautiful and powerful to be born of water and the Spirit today!

As it is written, “The wind blows wherever it pleases - you hear the sound of it but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The necessity of the Headship of Jesus Christ made effective through the Holy Spirit. He did indeed come to baptize us with the Holy Spirit, the One by whom the sins of God are being led today. Yes, the Kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness, peace and joy for us IN the Holy Spirit.

Praise the Lord.
Born of water is a reference to child birth...... so yeah I guess we can all rejoice we were created, born and are alive today.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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James is saying what I would now say, works are a sign of life, not quantity. Get the focus wrong and you end up trying prove something that cannot be earnt, either you dwell in Jesus or you do not.

As Paul said

2 Cor 13:5-6
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.

Some have discovered they assumed they knew Jesus and found they did not, repented, humbled themselves and Christ dwelt in them. This is not our ministry, we can but share our faith, and God provides the fruit. Amen
You did not answer the question
how many works?

James gave us a number
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
18,008
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2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin.

The elect can never lose their salvation, but who are they?
Every other variation exists, so it will appear one way or the other.
So once someone is saved. They have eternal security?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Can you tell me one thing who is your teacher... is it Jesse Morrell?
You sound a lot like him.
Have never heard of this guy!

But? Methinks I "see" what yer saying.

He "hammers away" on the streets to people concerning the Gospel of Christ?

I "hammer away" "to the church" (called out ones), concerning the "everlasting Gospel."

Which "moves beyond" the principle doctrines of Christ, towards Spiritual maturity.

Same "anointing?"

Different "target."

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that ANY man teach you:
but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

But, as far as the "teacher" I was led to in "getting to 1 John 2:27?"

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Know what? God is even bigger then the box you have put Him in! :unsure:

I do not put GOD in a Box, not even the Box we call time. HIS Omnipresence, involves every cubic inch of Space itself, and Even every second of TIME as we know it, all at the same time.

Now my turn to ask a question. Do you BELIEVE the Deity of JESUS is GOD HIMSELF ?