Not By Works

[Judges1318]

These "nominal" Christians/make believers certainly were "sanctified" or "set apart" (but not saved) as active participants in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but you remain satisfied with your contradiction between Hebrews 10:10,14 and Hebrews 10:29 and are too committed at this point to abandon your biased agenda and accept the truth.

As I said, it's only a contradiction to you because you automatically apply your osas presupposition that tells you it can't possibly be talking about a sanctified/saved person, so you instantly throw out that possibility and invented a sanctified unsaved person that the Bible itself says doesn't exist. THAT interpretation is what creates the contradiction in the passage.

You are literally telling me to ignore the context of the chapter that plainly tells me what 'sanctified' means.

 

[Judges1318]

SPELL IT OUT. Does the definition of "justified" in James 2:24 mean "ACCOUNTED AS RIGHTEOUS" OR "SHOWN TO BE RIGHTEOUS."

You can't see it right there in James that it's talking about being shown to be righteous?
It doesn't even need interpretation. You need to stop being so defensive. I think it's causing you to not read my posts thoughtfully.
I haven't been mean or impolite to you to warrant such defensiveness.

 

[Kolistus]

The problem is osas has devolved even further into a doctrine that says you don't even have to continue to believe in Christ to be saved when He comes back. That's where it crosses the line from being just another innocent opinion about doctrine.

That is troubling. Only those who believe in Jesus are saved.

 

[Judges1318]

We show our faith by our works, but we do not establish it. Faith expresses itself through love because when we are saved through faith, we receive the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) and God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5)

I hope you're just sharing this for other's benefit, because I'm full on board with this.

The point is, even Paul taught that the faith that justifies is the faith that works.

 

[Judges1318]

It sounds to me like you are confusing the 3 tenses of salvation (justification, ongoing sanctification, glorification)

I understand them perfectly.
Honestly, I think you're being too defensive and not reading my posts objectively.

 

[mailmandan]

You can't see it right there in James that it's talking about being shown to be righteous? It doesn't even need interpretation. You need to stop being so defensive. I think it's causing you to not read my posts thoughtfully. I haven't been mean or impolite to you to warrant such defensiveness.

I know that James is talking about being shown to be righteous. Thank you for finally spelling it out. I probably would not have come across to you as defensive if you would have clearly spelled it out the first time I asked you.

 

[mailmandan]

As I said, it's only a contradiction to you because you automatically apply your osas presupposition that tells you it can't possibly be talking about a sanctified/saved person, so you instantly throw out that possibility and invented a sanctified unsaved person that the Bible itself says doesn't exist. THAT interpretation is what creates the contradiction in the passage.

You are literally telling me to ignore the context of the chapter that plainly tells me what 'sanctified' means.

Continue to ignore sanctified once for all/for all time (Hebrews 10:10,14) if you wish and remain satisfied with your contraction with Hebrews 10:29 (according to your interpretation) for the sake of your agenda if you wish, but I'm not buying it. Also ignore the fact that an unsaved person (unbelieving spouse) was sanctified in 1 Corinthians 7:14, but just call that invented as well and believe that person doesn't exist either. By your conclusion, you are ignoring the context of Hebrews 10.

 

[Judges1318]

The NASB reads - so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. I noticed that you try really hard to force everything to fit with NOSAS.

The point was to illustrate the difference between being justified (it means one thing) and actually laying hold of the inheritance in salvation. By definition 'justified' and 'saved' are not the same thing. An important point that may help people understand the argument against osas.

It wasn't the point I was making, but if you want to, you can express your opinion about why Paul used 'become' in the subjunctive mood "the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances"* instead of the indicative mood of certainty.

*https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/tit/3/1/t_conc_1132007

Apparently, not all those who are justified by his grace are made heirs.
I suspect you'll go back to Romans 8:30.
Let's do that.

 

[Judges1318]

Continue to ignore sanctified once for all/for all time (Hebrews 10:10,14) if you wish and remain satisfied with your contraction with Hebrews 10:29 (according to your interpretation) for the sake of your agenda if you wish, but I'm not buying it.

Now show me using the context of Hebrews what 'once for all time' means.
And by the way, I haven't had a 'contraction' in years, in fact, never, lol.
Yes, I know, it's a typ0. Loosen up, lol.

Also ignore the fact that an unsaved person (unbelieving spouse) was sanctified in 1 Corinthians 7:14, but just call that invented as well and believe that person doesn't exist either. By your conclusion, you are ignoring the context of Hebrews 10.

Using the context of 1 Corinthians 7:14 show me what the purpose was for God sanctifying the unbelieving spouse for the believer. It says it right there. Then we'll apply it to Hebrews 10 so you can see you're inventing a fictitious sanctified unbeliever. One that scripture goes out of the way to say doesn't exist.

 

[Judges1318]

@mailmandan, I still have to work for a living, I'll be back later.

 

[mailmandan]

The point was to illustrate the difference between being justified (it means one thing) and actually laying hold of the inheritance in salvation. By definition 'justified' and 'saved' are not the same thing. An important point that may help people understand the argument against osas.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.....But not saved, huh? You interpret the Bible through the lens of attacking OSAS.

It wasn't the point I was making, but if you want to, you can express your opinion about why Paul used 'become' in the subjunctive mood "the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances"* instead of the indicative mood of certainty.

*https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/tit/3/1/t_conc_1132007

Apparently, not all those who are justified by his grace are made heirs.
I suspect you'll go back to Romans 8:30.
Let's do that.

Roman Catholics also like to make eternal life something that might or might not happen for believers. They heavily push eternal IN-security and they even have their own translation of John 3:16 in the NAB that reads - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. *Notice not one, but two "mights." hmm..

Romans 8:30 clearly states - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.

 

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan, I still have to work for a living, I'll be back later.

So do I am and I'm getting ready to leave for work soon.

 

[mailmandan]

Now show me using the context of Hebrews what 'once for all time' means.
And by the way, I haven't had a 'contraction' in years, in fact, never, lol.
Yes, I know, it's a typ0. Loosen up, lol.

Using the context of 1 Corinthians 7:14 show me what the purpose was for God sanctifying the unbelieving spouse for the believer. It says it right there. Then we'll apply it to Hebrews 10 so you can see you're inventing a fictitious sanctified unbeliever. One that scripture goes out of the way to say doesn't exist.

I'm out of time for now and we already previously discussed this.

 

[OneOfHis]

@mailmandan, I still have to work for a living, I'll be back later.

Ya thats the way of the world. Work to live. Far different than salvation.

 

[OneOfHis]

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.....But not saved, huh? You interpret the Bible through the lens of attacking OSAS.

Roman Catholics also like to make eternal life something that might or might not happen for believers. They heavily push eternal IN-security and they even have their own translation of John 3:16 in the NAB that reads - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. *Notice not one, but two "mights." hmm..

Romans 8:30 clearly states - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.

Love you fightin for the truth bro, even trying to shine light on the truth for those dishonest people who will just twist and embellish and make strawmen and provoke...


I feel so sad for these people who keep rejecting the righteousness of Christ... but... one day they will see how "many wonderful works in His name" will gain them nothing....

They place their hopes in mans effort... It is a shame...

 

[OneOfHis]

That is troubling. Only those who believe in Jesus are saved.

Have you ever posted on CC under a different username or screen name than "Kolistus"?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The context of Hebrews 10 creates a contradiction between vss. 10,14 and vs. 29 (according to your interpretation) as I already explained, but you don't seem to care as long as your false doctrine is advanced. Now in regards to the word "justified" in James 2:24, SPELL IT OUT. Does the definition of "justified" in James 2:24 mean "ACCOUNTED AS RIGHTEOUS" OR "SHOWN TO BE RIGHTEOUS."

How many times has he been shown this

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus words matter to me and I don't think that He is a mocker but is certainly a teacher. Now before getting somewhere else, is it a Yes or No?

I'm asking you this to give you the opportunity to prove your point that those people in Matthew 25 we're not saved and therefore have no capacity to love.

I am not going to take Jesus out of context

can a non believer care for others yes
that does not mean they love in a way God wants us to love

the Bible is clear. Our capacity to truly love is based on the fact God loves us first
when do we experience that love? At salvation

Whether you agree with this or not is up to you

Now will you answer My original question and tell me if you think you can make yourself right with god before he saves you? Since it appears his is what you were saying

please note when someone asks you a question. Don’t demand they answer you when you have yet answered them

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is troubling. Only those who believe in Jesus are saved.

Yes
true faith
not mere belief
many people claim to believe have faith when in reality they have no faith at all

our faith is based on the one we are trusting in. The only way we lose faith is when the one we are trusting proves u trustworthy

saying we can lose faith says god is
Not trustworthy.

 

[mailmandan]

How many times has he been shown this

I lost count.