Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Remember, Paul says Sarah and Hagar represent the New and old covenants, respectively. Now read it with that in mind.
How does Hagar represent the old covenant?
If memory serves me Abraham sent her away with Ishmael.

Can you please post verses concerning how Hagar represents the 2 covenants.

The reason I ask this is because of my Muslim heritage
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Maybe.
The problem is the many examples of the Perfect Tense that don't follow the osas definition of it. It will be a hard sell.
And in what other literature do we find those many examples that do not follow the "Perfect Tense" in the post classical era
(300 BC to approx 450 AD)?
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Can it be reversed?
i wouldnt be surprised if some of these guys started teaching even in the new heaven and earth you can still choose to rebel and we have another fall.

its unbelievable.

grace is such a concept that to religious mind it just makes it go nuts thinkin it means we just sin at will. then you try to explain to them that they miss the point of a born again person dont want to sin, but wants to live for righteousness but nope they wont have any of it
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If something our LORD said is countered with a Paul said... know that interpretation divides.
the Truth is One and the tittle tattle is of men.. GOD enlighten us always.
Paul a servant of GOD.
Peace and love to all.
The words of Paul are the words of Jesus....and on a few rare occasions Paul gave his own view by permission and even then his words do not contradict the words of Jesus.......

Jesus INSPIRED PAUL and he PROCLAIMED the words of Jesus!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So between March 2nd and yesterday morning, yesterday morning was the first time that you just coincidentally happened to check back on Christian Chad and saw my post and in a very short time responded. :unsure: So am I immature in Christ or am I not saved at all? You tell me, since you enjoy playing judge. I don’t doubt my salvation one bit and my maturity level is between me and the Lord. You sound like someone who’s had some bad experiences at church and now you are bitter about it, which may explain why you keep lashing out at others.
You must be talking to the Phariseeical hypocrite Noseeum Judges.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Knowledge is not how you measure maturity in Christ.
Ironically, knowledge of the Bible is how you would know this.
But, as is quite clear, Christians are not good Bible readers.
And those who do read the Bible only see their favorite pet doctrines in the scriptures, not what the Bible actually says.
You are such an idiot......and the above is a moronic conclusion.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Wow! That's quite a coincidence!

It's not a game and postings (time and date of each post) are listed in everyone's profile. Not hard to figure out.

Your anger and bitterness is becoming more and more obvious. You sound like you are having a meltdown. :eek:

You consistently paint believers in the OSAS camp with a broad brush of either being babes in Christ or not believers at all. Have you ever met a OSAS believer that you considered to be grown up and knowledgeable and wise by your standards? You seem to believe that ONLY those in the NOSAS camp are capable of being grown up and knowledgeable and wise.

From my experience, many people in the NOSAS camp are quick to judge OSAS believers as promoting a license to sin and seem to view themselves as "holier than thou." Also, 'ALL' false religions and cults (who teach salvation by works) strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me! I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and for years listened to Catholic priests constantly attack OSAS and make fun of Protestants and accuse them of lacking in knowledge, yet these Catholic priests were clueless to the fact they were promoting a false gospel of works salvation. So pardon me if I don't seriously consider any form of rebuke from someone in the NOSAS camp.

If I was NOSAS then you would most likely consider me to be a real brother. It amazes me to see over the years on various Christian forums how people in the NOSAS camp are quick to join hands and sing 'kumbaya' together in unity over NOSAS, even if certain members in the group that they are holding hands with attend a false religion or cult and teach a false gospel.

Either we are born of BOTH water AND Spirit or else we are not. Believers do not merely have one or the other. Where do you come up with this stuff?

I used to consider you to be more patient and sincere, but now your angry, bitter true colors are really showing and it's disturbing! What happened to you? :(

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Bad people most of the time? Hate and murder over doctrines? You are over the top! o_O Apparently to you the Christian life seems to be all about NOSAS and attacking people in the OSAS camp. Losing salvation is mainly all you talk about.

Where does that leave most NOSAS people? It doesn't concern you in the least that ALL false religions and cults promote NOSAS? :unsure:

You seem to only consider those in the NOSAS camp as most likely being real brothers and sisters in Christ and EVERYONE in the OSAS camp in your eyes as being either babes in Christ or not saved at all. Your NOSAS bias is making your decisions for you.

We are either born of water AND the Spirit or else we are not. It's not just one or the other. You talk about pride and arrogance characterizing OSAS believers, yet just listen to yourself! :eek:
Usually when people start flinging "God is or as my witness" like he did....they are about 97% full of crap!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's actually 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Your obsession with attacking the OSAS doctrine is really affecting your character! Maybe you need to step back and take a deep breath.
I was thinking more along the line of, "Maybe he should actually trust Jesus by faith that saves"
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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anyone know if everything is ok with dcontroversal i sent him a PM he hasnt answered me yet i sent it sunday. usually he reply to me really fast so just wondering.
My GUESS is he is coming home to AMERICA.
Yes.

I have checked 3 sources and they all agree that the title “to the Hebrews” is a name that was traditionally ascribed to the letter and not part of what the original inspired writer wrote.

“This epistle is not a letter to the Hebrews, but a detailed explanation to everyone of the reasons behind Jesus’ life and passion”

“It’s title of ‘Hebrews’ is itself a misnomer, as the explanation in the book is plainly for everyone”

Another source states:

“The book of Hebrews doesn’t clearly identify its audience by name, city or region”

Another source states:

“This epistle’s title bears the traditional Greek title, ‘to the Hebrews’”


So now you in your mind want to CHOSE what is INSPIRED, and what is NOT.

Isn't that the definition of a CULT ? ? ?

2 Timothy 3:15-16 (HCSB)
15 and you know that from childhood you have known the sacred Scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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@Judges1318 ...
I just want to say that although I disagree with you about losing my Salvation , I want to apologize openly to you about the times I have said or added to things that should not of been said , like some personal remarks...

I know I am guilty of this because before you came back to post , in the past I have known to behave this way , for this I want to say I am truly sorry...
...xox...
First NO NEED to apologize to him.....second....it is not unbiblical to make the sense known in our own words and give a reasonable explanation.....make no mistake...almost everything he states is tainted by the false, self maintained salvation that he spews like a backed up septic pipe when it is finally opened!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That is why I think we made a slight mistake in interpreting this verse for almost 2000 years.

John 10:15-16 (HCSB)
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.


The Two Folds are:

O.T. Assembly
&
N.T. Assembly

HE IS SPEAKING TO THE LAST OF THE O.T. Assembly, and speaking about the N.T. Assembly not of this fold.

The word Church was not what Jesus or the Apostles used when they spoke about us. BOTH WERE CALLED THE ASSEMBLY.

You can look that up.

Sometime between 100 - 200 A.D. we start calling ourselves the Church. SO they just added that to the Definition of the word.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Is it any wonder how some Christians find it easy to put down JEWS?

But the point is HE CALLED BOTH the ASSEMBLY, and the TWO will become ONE at the RAPTURE. THINK IT THREW.

We BOTH are part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST. WE SHARE THE SAME SAVING FAITH.

O.T. ASSEMBLY = THEY BELIEVED GOD, AND THEY WERE EXPECTING THE MESSIAH TO COME A PAY FOR THEIR SINS.

N.T. ASSEMBLY = WE BELIEVE GOD, AND WE KNOW THAT THE MESSIAH DID COME AND PAY FOR OUR SINS.

That is the SAME SAVING FAITH THAT ABRAHAM HAD!


Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
6 “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
They are called the assembly (church) of the firstborn in the wilderness!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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And in what other literature do we find those many examples that do not follow the "Perfect Tense" in the post classical era
(300 BC to approx 450 AD)?
I don't know about all 'dat stuff, lol, but look at this:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18 KJV

For the sake of others reading this, the Perfect tense of a verb means the action of that verb was completed in the past and has results continuing up to the present. That's the definition of the Perfect tense--completed action with results continuing up to the present.

In the verse above, the verb 'hath not believed' is in the Perfect tense. It's a completed action with results continuing up to the present. The result of not believing that continues up to the present is condemnation. Now, if the Perfect tense is defined as osas says it is, then the continuing result of this poor chap's unbelieving, his condemnation, not only continues up to the present but also continues into the future and will never end. But we know all he has to do is believe and the results of his past action of not believing end. This demonstrates that the results of a Perfect tense past action can end and don't have to, by definition of the Perfect tense, continue unchanged beyond the present as osas says it does.

Capisce?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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First NO NEED to apologize to him.....second....it is not unbiblical to make the sense known in our own words and give a reasonable explanation.....make no mistake...almost everything he states is tainted by the false, self maintained salvation that he spews like a backed up septic pipe when it is finally opened!
Hi Dcon...
He did not even acknowledge my apology , I think he has me on ignore , not sure why , I have never said anything bad to him really , just felt I posted one time from my flesh in annoyance to his post , but he never responded to that either...

I also sent him pm , but that has not been noted ...

I agree that we should all raise our swords against the false gospel that is being preached , and I will carry on regardless , but I did want to openly apologize to him on the forum , because I openly spoke to him through my frustration...

Nice to see you back @dcontroversal , hope you keeping well brother...
Not sure where you are , I just had a vision of you supping on your coffee looking out on the mountains enjoying separation from the virus , or are you back home in the U.S.A. ?
...xox...
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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guys lets all be honest. God is gracious and merciful we agree on that.

how patient are we with our loved ones and family members? very. imagine how patient God is?

it has taken me forever to give up some sins and when i finally did it was great. but when i believed God would just throw me to hellfire for not being able to give them up like that, its only gonna make it worse you think i might as well not even bother.

i believe thats what devil wants he wants people to be unsure doubting all the time and feel miserable.

there are cases where the bible says some are given over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit can be saved. that case maybe the man just couldnt get victory over his flesh world and the devil so now sin will destroy his flesh. but he is still saved in eternity.