Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
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The Lord gave Testament which Paul shared.. as did many others.. your writing above is opinion as is mine.. let the Word of GOD be heard above all our opinion.

So if a person feels that Paul’s writings are not in line with the Lord’s then let them read Jesus first and last for life they give!

One Messiah, One Son of GOD whom died for our redemption.. only His Blood and sacrifice can save.

The New wine was merely shared amongst the Gentiles through Paul and many others..

We then read of the journey and persecution that was endured.
Not hardly pal....my words are factual!!
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Hello again! I am sure something is being repeated, already been said ...
With God's grace they can keep it imperfectly.
Imperfectly = for sure
Perfectly =Possible not probable.
If you cooperate with God's grace and keep it to the best of your ability
Without Christ, we stand in our own righteousness, in all things.
Even in Christ men cannot keep the Law
Christ fulfilled it, Christians stand in His Righteousness, "Clothed" with Christ.
The Father sees His Son's Righteousness.
and confess your sins when you fail you will be saved.
You understand the law cannot be kept it seems....
What is essential is sincere effort.
I don't understand what you mean by this?

God Bless...
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
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In Mt 22:40 a lawyer asks Jesus what the greatest commandment is. Jesus says to love God with everything you have. Is this work of the law necessary for salvation?
"31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:31

Faith upholds the law. So, ultimately, in the end, that work is necessary in a person saved by faith. It's the work that faith upholds.
This obedience of the law--the obedience of love--is the evidence Jesus will use to sort the sheep from the goats:

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
40“...‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
45“...‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Matthew 25

This love for Jesus and His people doesn't earn salvation. It's the evidence of salvation:

"1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands." - 1 John 5:1-2
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
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I have a papers using linguistical analysis that clearly shows that "Perfect Tense" at the time in the Greek language definitely had a time element of an extended now... meaning ongoing results.

In fact this is not even disputed among people in the field.
We all know in the Perfect tense the results of the action continue up to the present time.
That is not in dispute.
The error of the osas movement is to add to that definition and say the ongoing results also continue into the future, forever, and won't stop.
That's not the definition of the Perfect tense.
And it's easily seen in the scriptural example I shared that it can't mean that.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:18

If it does mean what osas says it means then unbelievers can never escape the ongoing result of not having believed.
But we know that when an unbeliever comes to faith in Christ the ongoing result of not having believed ends.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
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I absolutely cannot understand working against God really.... you should think on that .....
The necessity to continue in your believing in order to be saved is no more working against God than the necessity to start that believing is.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
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down here in north ga. ( usa), some trees have put leaves on, some have not.
so, the way your garbage lordship salvation works, you would say ' well, the ones who have leaves ( works) are alive ( saved), the ones who do not are dead ( condemned).

except , leaves or no leaves do NOT prove life. the way to prove life is break of a branch, and see is the flesh green.

so, as with us, the proof of life in a tree is on the unseen inside, not the visible outside.

belief on the inside saves, not works on the outside.
"7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:7-8

Now, according to the passage above, in the end, if your 'land' does not produce a crop useful to God, will you be blessed, or will you be cursed and burned?

Does this mean works earn salvation?
No, of course not.
It means, in the end, genuine salvation changes a person from fruitless, thorny, barren land to fruitful land full of the "things that have to do with salvation" (vs.9).
In the end, barren land is the sign of not being saved, just as fruitful land, in the end, is the sign of being saved.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
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What is essential is sincere effort.
I don't understand what you mean by this?
Maybe he's referring to this:

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1

That's not a works gospel. That's called 'making your calling and election sure'. Only fruitful people are sure of God's calling and election in their lives.

Notice in vs. 10 and 11 that it is those who have the qualities of the Spirit mentioned who will never stumble and who have the assurance of receiving a rich welcome into Christ's kingdom. Only mature, fruitful, 4th type of soil believers in the Parable of the Sower who persevere in the Word can begin to think they can't fall away and will always be saved. The rest of us need to 'make every effort' to get to that place where we can never fall away from Christ and will always be saved.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,016
142
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Not hardly pal....my words are factual!!
Affirming yourself or getting some pal’s to affirm is not going to cut it... that goes to myself too!

You give opinion based on interpretation.. as do I.. factual according to that and whomever else Laps up your opinion and soothes your ego.

Share the Lord’s Testament and give relief from our opinion pal.

Matthew 5 is a relief from all our opinion in a thread like this.
 

Micaiah-imla

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
228
115
43
The Lord gave Testament which Paul shared.. as did many others.
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37).

For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:2).
 

Micaiah-imla

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
228
115
43
The law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). When you believe the gospel you then become born into the spirit and thus become empowered with the Holy Spirit to be spiritual as the law is spiritual.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10).

But you, put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not make provision for the flesh, to fulfill the desires thereof (Romans 13:14).

When you wake up, don’t put on [your name], or you will do what [your name] wants to do.

Put on the Lord Jesus Christ so that you can “establish the law” (Romans 3:31).

With much love!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,410
3,341
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"7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:7-8

Now, according to the passage above, in the end, if your 'land' does not produce a crop useful to God, will you be blessed, or will you be cursed and burned?

Does this mean works earn salvation?
No, of course not.
It means, in the end, genuine salvation changes a person from fruitless, thorny, barren land to fruitful land full of the "things that have to do with salvation" (vs.9).
In the end, barren land is the sign of not being saved, just as fruitful land, in the end, is the sign of being saved.
that makes 0 sense.

guess I made a point you could not spin into lordship salvation junk...
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
2,152
543
113
that makes 0 sense.
Then I'm curious what Hebrews 6:7-8 means to you.

"7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:7-8

Explain.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
4,488
5,116
113
Affirming yourself or getting some pal’s to affirm is not going to cut it... that goes to myself too!

You give opinion based on interpretation.. as do I.. factual according to that and whomever else Laps up your opinion and soothes your ego.

Share the Lord’s Testament and give relief from our opinion pal.

Matthew 5 is a relief from all our opinion in a thread like this.
It is not about opinion....it is about understanding and the facts, Matthew 5 is also understood within the broader context of scripture.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
4,488
5,116
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The law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). When you believe the gospel you then become born into the spirit and thus become empowered with the Holy Spirit to be spiritual as the law is spiritual.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10).

But you, put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not make provision for the flesh, to fulfill the desires thereof (Romans 13:14).

When you wake up, don’t put on [your name], or you will do what [your name] wants to do.

Put on the Lord Jesus Christ so that you can “establish the law” (Romans 3:31).

With much love!
The righteousness of the law was fulfilled by Jesus.
His righteousness is imputed to the believer.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,762
8,187
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The righteousness of the law was fulfilled by Jesus.
His righteousness is imputed to the believer.
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. (y)
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
4,488
5,116
113
We all know in the Perfect tense the results of the action continue up to the present time.
That is not in dispute.
The error of the osas movement is to add to that definition and say the ongoing results also continue into the future, forever, and won't stop.
That's not the definition of the Perfect tense.
And it's easily seen in the scriptural example I shared that it can't mean that.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:18

If it does mean what osas says it means then unbelievers can never escape the ongoing result of not having believed.
But we know that when an unbeliever comes to faith in Christ the ongoing result of not having believed ends.
Wrong the OSAS made up nothing .... the literature of the time proves what the Perfect tense is, it has a time element ...the extended now ( ongoing results) .... stop making things up of which you know nothing.

You know you have to deny this fact to make your system work... however facts are facts and the study of language proves you wrong.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
2,619
3,154
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With God's grace they can keep it imperfectly. If you cooperate with God's grace and keep it to the best of your ability and confess your sins when you fail you will be saved. What is essential is sincere effort.
Works salvation (no grace).