Not By Works

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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,594
9,213
113
Usually when people start flinging "God is or as my witness" like he did....they are about 97% full of crap!
With God as my witness, I LOVE ORANGE KITTIES!! :love:

And THAT is NOT crap talk.. :p:cautious:




As far as being 97% full of crap, well the other 3% would hafta be the toilet paper they managed to scrounge up.. just sayin'.. :ROFL::ROFL:
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,699
3,635
113
I don't know about all 'dat stuff, lol, but look at this:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18 KJV

For the sake of others reading this, the Perfect tense of a verb means the action of that verb was completed in the past and has results continuing up to the present. That's the definition of the Perfect tense--completed action with results continuing up to the present.

In the verse above, the verb 'hath not believed' is in the Perfect tense. It's a completed action with results continuing up to the present. The result of not believing that continues up to the present is condemnation. Now, if the Perfect tense is defined as osas says it is, then the continuing result of this poor chap's unbelieving, his condemnation, not only continues up to the present but also continues into the future and will never end. But we know all he has to do is believe and the results of his past action of not believing end. This demonstrates that the results of a Perfect tense past action can end and don't have to, by definition of the Perfect tense, continue unchanged beyond the present as osas says it does.

Capisce?

down here in north ga. ( usa), some trees have put leaves on, some have not.
so, the way your garbage lordship salvation works, you would say ' well, the ones who have leaves ( works) are alive ( saved), the ones who do not are dead ( condemned).

except , leaves or no leaves do NOT prove life. the way to prove life is break of a branch, and see is the flesh green.

so, as with us, the proof of life in a tree is on the unseen inside, not the visible outside.

belief on the inside saves, not works on the outside.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
859
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How does Hagar represent the old covenant?
If memory serves me Abraham sent her away with Ishmael.

Can you please post verses concerning how Hagar represents the 2 covenants.

The reason I ask this is because of my Muslim heritage
Galatians 4:22-26
"22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.


24These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem (Sarah) that is above is free, and she is our mother."

Hagar is Abraham's attempt to fulfill the promise himself in the natural and expected way, the way of works. She represents the old covenant and the attempt to fulfill the promise of God in the natural way of works.

Sarah is God fulfilling the promise for Abraham in the way of the supernatural and unexpected, the way of faith. She represents the New Covenant and the fulfillment of the promise through the supernatural way of faith in the promise.

When the supernatural way to the promise was revealed the old way (Hagar-the old covenant) was sent away. The son produced by that covenant (Hagar) is a slave and, therefore, has no part of the inheritance.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
8,430
8,928
113
I don't know about all 'dat stuff, lol, but look at this:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18 KJV

For the sake of others reading this, the Perfect tense of a verb means the action of that verb was completed in the past and has results continuing up to the present. That's the definition of the Perfect tense--completed action with results continuing up to the present.

In the verse above, the verb 'hath not believed' is in the Perfect tense. It's a completed action with results continuing up to the present. The result of not believing that continues up to the present is condemnation. Now, if the Perfect tense is defined as osas says it is, then the continuing result of this poor chap's unbelieving, his condemnation, not only continues up to the present but also continues into the future and will never end. But we know all he has to do is believe and the results of his past action of not believing end. This demonstrates that the results of a Perfect tense past action can end and don't have to, by definition of the Perfect tense, continue unchanged beyond the present as osas says it does.

Capisce?
Well it is "capisci"

But putting that aside
The meaning of words changes over time so people who study language like the linguistics people look at the surrounding literature of the time to understand the changes in language and to see what the words mean.

I have a papers using linguistical analysis that clearly shows that "Perfect Tense" at the time in the Greek language definitely had a time element of an extended now... meaning ongoing results.

In fact this is not even disputed among people in the field.

So no conspiracy .. and the language of the time was perfectly suited for the message of the true Gospel of one belief with ongoing results that does not end.

God does everything Perfectly, even the language to deliver His message.

I absolutely cannot understand working against God really.... you should think on that ..... He did everything perfectly right down to the language of the time
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
8,430
8,928
113
Taking a break from this thread for a bit ... need to go get groceries ... no worries I got the physical distancing covered...

90794853_10222383121549606_2151578804827455488_n.jpg
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
859
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Is this the same Sarah

Genesis 18:12-15
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
13 And the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.”
15 But Sarah denied it, saying, “I did not laugh,” for she was afraid.
And He said, “No, but you did laugh!”
Yes, that is the same Sarah.
She represents the New Covenant.
The Covenant of faith that produces sons; sons who are free and inherit the blessing.
Hagar represents the old covenant.
The covenant of self effort that produces slaves; slaves to sin that do not inherit the blessing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,016
142
63
The words of Paul are the words of Jesus....and on a few rare occasions Paul gave his own view by permission and even then his words do not contradict the words of Jesus.......

Jesus INSPIRED PAUL and he PROCLAIMED the words of Jesus!
The Lord gave Testament which Paul shared.. as did many others.. your writing above is opinion as is mine.. let the Word of GOD be heard above all our opinion.

So if a person feels that Paul’s writings are not in line with the Lord’s then let them read Jesus first and last for life they give!

One Messiah, One Son of GOD whom died for our redemption.. only His Blood and sacrifice can save.

The New wine was merely shared amongst the Gentiles through Paul and many others..

We then read of the journey and persecution that was endured.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,016
142
63
Matthew 5

5 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,253
3,719
113
The Lord gave Testament which Paul shared.. as did many others.. your writing above is opinion as is mine.. let the Word of GOD be heard above all our opinion.

So if a person feels that Paul’s writings are not in line with the Lord’s then let them read Jesus first and last for life they give!

One Messiah, One Son of GOD whom died for our redemption.. only His Blood and sacrifice can save.

The New wine was merely shared amongst the Gentiles through Paul and many others..

We then read of the journey and persecution that was endured.
Sounds good......although I doubt I will need a cart ... just keep the items on my dress... safer that way!! :)

Yes, any handle, Not just grocery cart handle, can be wiped down quickly that way.

You sound like this add frome AmazonGo:

https://search.myway.com/search/video.jhtml?enc=0&n=78670ff4&p2=^CHU^xdm449^TTAB03^us&pg=video&pn=1&ptb=C3A6C1AC-EA46-48AF-B02E-54CD2BDCB4F0&qs=&searchfor=Scan+as+you+walk+out+of+the+store&si=mycalendarplanner-1-s&ss=sub&st=tab&tpr=sbt&trs=wtt
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
In Mt 22:40 a lawyer asks Jesus what the greatest commandment is. Jesus says to love God with everything you have. Is this work of the law necessary for salvation?
 
Nov 17, 2017
258
264
63
Hi!
In Mt 22:40 a lawyer asks Jesus what the greatest commandment is. Jesus says to love God with everything you have. Is this work of the law necessary for salvation?
Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

May I ask you a question?

Can men keep the law?

God Bless..
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
Hi!


Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

May I ask you a question?

Can men keep the law?

God Bless..

With God's grace they can keep it imperfectly. If you cooperate with God's grace and keep it to the best of your ability and confess your sins when you fail you will be saved. What is essential is sincere effort.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,104
20,032
113
Hi Dcon...
He did not even acknowledge my apology , I think he has me on ignore , not sure why , I have never said anything bad to him really , just felt I posted one time from my flesh in annoyance to his post , but he never responded to that either...

I also sent him pm , but that has not been noted ...

I agree that we should all raise our swords against the false gospel that is being preached , and I will carry on regardless , but I did want to openly apologize to him on the forum , because I openly spoke to him through my frustration...

Nice to see you back @dcontroversal , hope you keeping well brother...
Not sure where you are , I just had a vision of you supping on your coffee looking out on the mountains enjoying separation from the virus , or are you back home in the U.S.A. ?
...xox...
Yeah......in Missouri.....and yes....sipping coffee....watching news...cc..surfin web and burning time......hahha keep swinging Rose....rank and file deep the Jesus devaluers, salvation losers and Cainologists peddle their wares!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,104
20,032
113
Hi!


Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

May I ask you a question?

Can men keep the law?

God Bless..
the LAW HAS a purpose....shut every mouth and deem the whole world guilty before GOD...no one KEEPS the law....because.....BREAK THE LEAST = ALWAYS a law breaker! Jesus is the ONLY ONE that kept the LAW DOWN to the JOT and Tittle!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,104
20,032
113
Well it is "capisci"

But putting that aside
The meaning of words changes over time so people who study language like the linguistics people look at the surrounding literature of the time to understand the changes in language and to see what the words mean.

I have a papers using linguistical analysis that clearly shows that "Perfect Tense" at the time in the Greek language definitely had a time element of an extended now... meaning ongoing results.

In fact this is not even disputed among people in the field.

So no conspiracy .. and the language of the time was perfectly suited for the message of the true Gospel of one belief with ongoing results that does not end.

God does everything Perfectly, even the language to deliver His message.

I absolutely cannot understand working against God really.... you should think on that ..... He did everything perfectly right down to the language of the time
He has to devalue Greek verb tense to that of English....the only way to keep peddling his hog pen false gospel that devalues Jesus and enthrones self!!